From -
Sun Sep 15 17:58:28 1996
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 17
Today's Topics:
Re: FW: BEER JOKE
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: Advise please
Re: God/Goddess Worship (in Africa)
Re: Advise please
Re: Delay In Messages
Re: Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
Re: God/Goddess Worship
Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
Re: Delay In Messages
Re: Delay In Messages
Re: Is all S&M sexual?
Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:08:54 -0500
From: scott rudolph
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FW: BEER JOKE
Message-Id:
<2.2.32.19960913030854.006c3a54@mail.execpc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:46 AM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>BTW, a noted beer authority recently asserted in my
local Sunday paper that
>women invented beer! I forget his name right now...wish
I'd clipped and
>saved that article! Don'tcha hate that?
>
>Laura Goodwin
>
>I think the beer authority you're reffering to is
Michael Jackson. I am
also a home brewer; and among home brewers Michael Jackson
is the most well
known and authoritative beer expert. I've heard him tell of
how beer was
probably invented by women, as they have invented most
forms of food
preparation.
scott
rudy@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~rudy
"Animals are my friends; and I don't eat my friends."
George Bernard Shaw
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-Id:
<199609130333.UAA00422@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1430
Jonnan West wrote:
>
> Had she said 'military', Department of Defense, or
even 'Those
> asses at the Pentagon' I would've agreed
wholeheartedly. But she was
> speaking exclusively of Nasa and her context applied
it even more
> narrowly towards exploratory and research programs as
if they were
> costing us billions.
I don't want to get involved in the nitpicking, but I do
have a point
to make. I don't recall Patricia referring to a particular
country,
etc. This is an International list (in fact, if I'm
referring to my
home, I'm referring to Canada). For all anyone knows, she
was talking
about the whole world's spending on space research, etc.
Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of what she originally
said to
doublecheck.
This is mostly a reminder of folks that sometimes you'll
have to
explain regional/cultural/country specific things to
everyone else.
:) I still remember how many Americans and other folks
outside Canada
I confused when bringing up the Referendum that happened
here last
October, with Quebec trying to leave Canada. No one had any
clue of
what was happening, even though it was HUGE, scary news in
Canada.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
<199609130403.VAA00458@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1147
Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
>
> >Patricia wrote:
> >It is the difference between the slash and burn
mentality that has so
> >shamelessly despoiled our mother the earth who are
now spending billions
> >on space flight and terraforming..coming up with
real scientific ways to
> >make Mars habitable for humans after we have
nothing left on Earth.
>
> Specific enough to space exploration / colonization to
be pretty easy to
> see where he presumed NASA was being discussed, and
not DOD / Military.
> But somehow he's being just like a man and putting
words in someone's
> mouth.
Ah, there's her actual quote. I'm sorry, Chase, but there
are a few
assumptions being made here. 1. That she was referring to
just the
US. 2. That these were _all_ government monies regardless
of the
government. The private sector also does research, as does
the
scientific sector.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: feydancer@earthlink.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship (in Africa)
Message-Id:
<199609130405.VAA16783@serbia.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Hmm... a quick trip to _Goddesses in World
Mythology_ by Martha Ann &
>> Dorothy Myers Imel revealed a large number of
African goddesses. The first
>> section is devoted entirely to them (excluding
Egypt, which has its own
>> extensive section). I quit counting them around
100--which was still in the
>> "E" listings. Modern worshippers in Voudoun,
Umbanda, etc. would be very
>> surprised to hear that God/dess worship was
non-African!
>>
>> --Lady Phoenix
>
> I may be wrong then - I'll check it out. It was -my-
>understanding that the African 'Goddesses' would be
more closely ascribed
>to the Nymphs of Greek mythology than the definition of
a god or goddess
>as having dominion over an entire aspect of nature
(-my- definition of a
>god or goddess as opposed to say a nymph, satyr, lamia
et al. It
>generally works for me but may not be what someone else
uses). I will see
>what I can find out.
> I'm completely unfamiliar with Umbanda, but I know
modern Voudoun
>is a mixture of a number of african religions with
christian overtones,
>at least to the best of my understanding. I only know a
very few
>practicianers though (This is Indianapolis, not New
Orleans - ) and
>I've found books on the subject notable for the number
of times they
>contradict each other - .
> Jonnan
>
>
The African Goddesses seem (to me) similar to Goddesses in
other
cultures--all the way from supreme diety/creator (Mawu,
Nyame, Tamuno,
Woyengi, etc.) to dieties of specific aspects of nature
(such as sea,
weather, moon, sun, stars, insects, and dieties of aspects
of human life
(childbirth, fertility, death, education, agriculture,
justice, etc.).
Umbanda is similar to Voudoun and comes via Brazil, along
with Macumba and
Candomble. Santeria and Ifa are two more African-based
syncretic religions.
All of these religions have pantheons that include powerful
goddesses who
definitely have "dominion over an entire aspect of nature."
One good example
is Yemanja-- "Goddess of Love and Sexuality, Water;
Unhappiness; Mother and
Guardian. Goddess of saltwater and freshwater. She is the
universal mother."
(from Goddesses in World Mythology)
I came across this on the Net:
"Every New Year's Eve, the wide beaches of Rio undergo an
extraordinary
one-night
transformation, changing from pleasure grounds for devotees
of sun and surf into
sanctuaries for believers in Umbanda, the city's largest
spirit sect. As the
sun sets, millions of people come together on the sands to
pay special
homage to the ruling divinity of the sea, Yemanja. Their
prayers ask for
blessings in matters of love; oftentimes they are outright
requests for
divine intervention. Gathered beside bonfires and candles,
they swirl to the
mesmerizing beat of drums and chant hymns. The climactic
moment comes at the
stroke of midnight when the worshippers rush to the water's
edge and close
their prayers by casting a bouquet of roses into the sea.
I remember standing there at the edge of the ocean with Pia
and the rest of
my family watching as millions of people, thousands of them
women dressed in
flowing white gowns, tossed roses into the dark waters. The
collective
desire to be loved was inspiring. The visual was simply
breathtaking. There
was a moment of pious silence where all you could hear was
the surf. The
faithful watched intently the flowers they had thrown, for
if these flowers
returned to shore, that meant their prayers had fallen on
deaf ears and the
new year would bring much heartache.
Pia was so taken by this moment that she commissioned a
street artist to
capture it with paints. Now that painting hangs above our
chimney.
Oftentimes I caught her looking at it. A look which said:
if white gowns and
red roses are the means to speak to God, what splendor
heaven must hold."
(http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~skypen/Pia/rio.html)
--Lady Phoenix
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: feydancer@earthlink.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
<199609130415.VAA17762@serbia.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jonnan West wrote (in small part):
> So the question becomes, do I, as an person already
announced to
>be in conflict on some levels with the espoused views
of those on this
>mailing list, have a right or a need to remain on this
list against the
>notable objections of members in good standing who feel
that there is a
>certain basic assumption that, females or feminine
qualities, however
>defined, are intrinsically superior to males or
masculine qualities, that
>should be shared by anyone actively participating in
discourse on this
>list, and that those who are -not- in alignment with
that assumption,
>should debate their philosophy elsewhere.
>
> If this is the consensus of the group as a whole, or
of a large
>minority, then I will depart the area rather than be a
source of further
>friction within the list.
>
I think as far as friction goes, you come in as small
potatoes. You've been
reasonably polite (although a bit verbose). As far as I'm
concerned you are
welcome to stay or go. (If you're too much of a pain,
Dee-Ann will
undoubtedly kick you off anyway!) ;} My only suggestion is
that a little
more listening and a little less talking would probably be
appropriate.
--Lady Phoenix
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:03:18 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Delay In Messages
Message-ID:
In message , Barry
Emerson Wright writes
>Friends,
>
> I've gotten no mail from FS since yesterday and I know
some
>folks have posted, including myself. Is the problem
with the List or my
>ISP? If anyone is getting FS messages, I would be very
grateful if you
>would e-mail me and let me know.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Barry
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
something's been a mess somewhere but we have no idea
whether the
problem is in Canada or with our provider Demon Internet
who certainly
have had problems.
--
fiona and robert forsythe
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:27:48 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com,
femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Message-Id:
<2.2.32.19960913132748.00699134@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:34 PM 9/12/96 -0700, jnbry@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>my wife
>is as religious as I am agnostic. Just before she packs
our three boys into
>the minivan to take them to church sunday morning she
always gives me
>instructions as to what to do while she is gone. I
think it is a way cool
>contrast.
Except for the church part that sounds like my marriage.
Bruce is not at
all religious in the conventional way (he was raised
Jewish...happy New
Year, BTW), but says that he has religious feelings for me.
I am a devout
Pagan, and am raising my children Pagan. There is no
conflict on this issue
in my house, for us it's just how it's expressed.
I think what's going on is that Bruce needs a physical
Goddess toward whom
he can relate in some palpable way. In our religion this is
a legitimate
form of religious expression. In other religions it's
characterized as
idolatry.
Laura Goodwin
"All forms of fanaticism are suspect. The humane society
of the future, which we now build, will appreciate
diversity
and reward tolerant behavior."
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:18:54 -0500
From: falcon@sbc.mwol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
Message-ID:
FE>On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:44:55 -0400, Laura wrote:
FE>> I know several other D/s couples where the
husband is a toilet slave, and
FE>>without exception it was always the guy's idea.
These other wives and I
FE>>give each other *the look* (you women know what I
mean) when ever the topic
FE>>comes up. We don't talk about despising the
practice, or about the shame w
FE>>feel for agreeing to it. The subs seem to think
that we just glory in our
FE>>power. They won't let themselves be aware of the
pain this causes, because
FE>>their obsession is so overwhelming.
FE>I think that partly the problem is that there is a
close loving
FE>relationship and this makes it very difficult for the
woman.
FE>As a man who has had to pay a woman to feed me
usually at the last
FE>moment I am filled with disgust at my desires and I
feel I must be
FE>stupid to want to do such a thing. I have not paid
excessive amounts
FE>for the woman to feed me so I would think that the
women who have done
FE>it don't experience the revulsion that many women do.
Quite often
FE>another woman has watched the feeding and amazingly
when two women are
FE>together, rather than be embarrassed, they seem to
enjoy it. They
FE>don't usually try to end it as quickly as possible
but have sometimes
FE>literally rubbed my nose in it!
FE>I don't think I could suggest this practice to
someone I know because
FE>of the embarrassment it would cause but I could
understand how, if a
FE>woman did it to me once, I would be moved to beg
desperately for her
FE>to do it again!
FE>peter
FE>Peter Saxton, from London
FE>peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
FE>___________________________________________________________________
FE>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
FE>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
FE>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
hello peter
i guess in the usa... it seems this country is sometimes
obsessed with
taboos... i would imagine in England or a lot of places in
Europe...
that there are more women that would enjoy using a toilet
slave... i
read in Club magazine years back exerpts from the diary of
Bruno
Kahlman... who had consumed from women... one account had
me in complete
envy... he was placed in a brothel for women in Holland...
he performed
IBS 8 times in one day... that is immaculate body
service... where he
consumed from those women and licked them clean... i would
be glad if i
could consume just one a day... some people try to tell me
that it is a
health risk... as a result of you consuming... have you
ever experienced
any ill effects as a result...
thank you for responding for i now know of another like me
toilet slave billy
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:47:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: aehthex@magi.com (Lorraine Jobin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship
Message-Id: <199609130747.DAA24850@infoweb.magi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello again:
I'm going to try this again, sorry if you get two copies:
major server
problems!! Yesterday, I got some mail from the 11th. Today,
I received
mail from the 10th and about 5 hours later, the 9th! Maybe
the poem will be
in there somewhere! So, please do not send for now.
Thanks, L!
Hello everyone:
Would someone be so kind as to send me a copy of this poem?
The mail server
was down and I did not receive any posting for the 9th
& 10th. I must have
missed some interesting posts judging from the volume and
callibre of
replies. Thanks!!
>Patricia wrote-
>
>Thank you for the beautiful and haunting poem...it is
one of my favorites
>as well. Here is a class example of a woman who was
squashed by
>patriarchy... I can understand and this is why I
subscribe to this list
>and I am trying to raise my daughter with the high
ideals I see here.
>I do not want her to have to struggle as we do and hope
that by the time
>she is an adult, it will be more equal or at the very
least much more
>supportive of women. If not, perhaps she will be
another of the catalysts.
>
>Jet
>
>>and this is for Dee Ann and Laura and Jet and
Sorceress and Leather and
>>all the wonderful and wonder-filled women on this
list, and to the
>>hundreds of millions of women who have been
wounded, scared, altered,
>>killed by Patriachy...and those millions who have
survived and thrived
>>even within the half-life that Patriarchy has
allowed them..each is my
>>sister..this is a gift of a favorite poem of mine
that I identify with
>>totally.
>>
>>HER KIND, by Anne Sexton
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:00:07 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
Message-ID: <3239AF37.29C6@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am an american DOMME who practises golden showers for
many reasons.
The top reason being..it turns me on. But I also use it
during
training...peeing all over new sub and making him lay in
room with smell
of me all over him...stewing in my juices is part of his
transferring
power to me. It is so animal...marking my territory. It is
so holy,
baptism in goddess worship I call it. But smells are very
important
and my sub should be marked with mine.
As to drinking it....I talked to several doctor friends of
mine and they
assured me that urine is filled with proteins that are
good, rather than
harmful. The idea of being honored in this manner is just a
very big
turn on for me. Also one of the most aggravating things in
the world is
having to get up in middle of night to go pee. having sub
available at
foot of bed to receive it for me..keeps me warm in middle
of night.
just call me a pratical woman.
Patricia
falcon@sbc.mwol.com wrote:
>
> FE>On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:44:55 -0400, Laura wrote:
>
> FE>> I know several other D/s couples where the
husband is a toilet slave, and
> FE>>without exception it was always the guy's
idea. These other wives and I
> FE>>give each other *the look* (you women know
what I mean) when ever the topic
> FE>>comes up. We don't talk about despising the
practice, or about the shame w
> FE>>feel for agreeing to it. The subs seem to
think that we just glory in our
> FE>>power. They won't let themselves be aware of
the pain this causes, because
> FE>>their obsession is so overwhelming.
>
> FE>I think that partly the problem is that there is
a close loving
> FE>relationship and this makes it very difficult
for the woman.
>
> FE>As a man who has had to pay a woman to feed me
usually at the last
> FE>moment I am filled with disgust at my desires
and I feel I must be
> FE>stupid to want to do such a thing. I have not
paid excessive amounts
> FE>for the woman to feed me so I would think that
the women who have done
> FE>it don't experience the revulsion that many
women do. Quite often
> FE>another woman has watched the feeding and
amazingly when two women are
> FE>together, rather than be embarrassed, they seem
to enjoy it. They
> FE>don't usually try to end it as quickly as
possible but have sometimes
> FE>literally rubbed my nose in it!
>
> FE>I don't think I could suggest this practice to
someone I know because
> FE>of the embarrassment it would cause but I could
understand how, if a
> FE>woman did it to me once, I would be moved to beg
desperately for her
> FE>to do it again!
>
> FE>peter
>
> FE>Peter Saxton, from London
> FE>peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
>
> enaissoft.com with the subject "help".
>
> hello peter
> i guess in the usa... it seems this country is
sometimes obsessed with
> taboos... i would imagine in England or a lot of
places in Europe...
> that there are more women that would enjoy using a
toilet slave... i
> read in Club magazine years back exerpts from the
diary of Bruno
> Kahlman... who had consumed from women... one account
had me in complete
> envy... he was placed in a brothel for women in
Holland... he performed
> IBS 8 times in one day... that is immaculate body
service... where he
> consumed from those women and licked them clean... i
would be glad if i
> could consume just one a day... some people try to
tell me that it is a
> health risk... as a result of you consuming... have
you ever experienced
> any ill effects as a result...
> thank you for responding for i now know of another
like me
> toilet slave billy
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: aehthex@magi.com (Lorraine Jobin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Delay In Messages
Message-Id: <199609131510.LAA21604@infoweb.magi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi gang:
Well, it seems that the problem is up here in Canada. I'm
just getting
caught up with my e-mail. I just received this one from
yesterday sent at
3:30 p.m. Apparently, the server I use, iSTAR, mysteriously
ended up having
a read-protect code inserted into their system. No one
received mail for 3
days. About 250 messages trickled in on and off yesterday,
in reverse
order. Kept me up all night. I have now had a grand total
of 7 hours since
Wednesday the 4th. Mentally, I'm doing fine, physically,
I'm banging into
walls.
I miss my submate... Well, that's enough of that! What kind
of a Dom am I?
Am I in control or what? Get some sleep,
missy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, that was the problem with the e-mail. Barry, fiona
and robert, you
should be getting all your mail now. We Canucks are on top
of it!!!!! Haha!!
Have a good weekend all,
Lorraine
>> I've gotten no mail from FS since yesterday and I
know some
>>folks have posted, including myself. Is the problem
with the List or my
>>ISP? If anyone is getting FS messages, I would be
very grateful if you
>>would e-mail me and let me know.
>>
>>Barry
>>
>>
>something's been a mess somewhere but we have no idea
whether the
>problem is in Canada or with our provider Demon
Internet who certainly
>have had problems.
>--
>fiona and robert forsythe
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Delay In Messages
Message-Id:
<199609131622.JAA00293@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 667
Lorraine Jobin wrote:
>
> Anyway, that was the problem with the e-mail. Barry,
fiona and robert, you
> should be getting all your mail now. We Canucks are on
top of it!!!!! Haha!!
Well, fortunately, the ISP I use isn't an iSTAR ISP, so the
list has
been going on as usual. :) For those non-Canucks, iSTAR is
a company
who has been buying up Canadian ISPs like they're candy.
Dee-Ann
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:55 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Is all S&M sexual?
Message-ID: <32387182.166769574@post.demon.co.uk>
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:04:19 -0800, you wrote:
>Peter wrote...
>>
>>All I can say is that many times I have done things
for women when I
>>knew that it would not lead to sex and sometimes I
have done things
>>for women and felt very happy about doing them even
though the woman
>>would not know that I had done them and so I could
not even be
>>rewarded by them woman looking favourably towards
me.
>
>
>
>Paint my house!
>
>Leather
You can't have seen my painting abilities. You'd have to be
a
masochist to want me to paint your house! :-)
peter
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:53:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: aehthex@magi.com (Lorraine Jobin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: One likes, the other doesn't (Re: the ultimate
Message-Id: <199609131853.OAA13617@infoweb.magi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OH GODDESS, I love this list! As much as I miss my
subfriend, I pick up my
e-mail and I - am - home!
Thanks Patricia, you've made my day! Hugs and kisses to all
of you!
Today I will sign myself, sincerely,
Mistress Lorraine
Patricia wrote:
>I am an american DOMME who practises golden showers for
many reasons.
>The top reason being..it turns me on. But I also use it
during
>training...peeing all over new sub and making him lay
in room with smell
>of me all over him...stewing in my juices is part of
his transferring
>power to me. It is so animal...marking my territory. It
is so holy,
>baptism in goddess worship I call it. But smells are
very important
>and my sub should be marked with mine.
>
>As to drinking it....I talked to several doctor friends
of mine and they
>assured me that urine is filled with proteins that are
good, rather than
>harmful. The idea of being honored in this manner is
just a very big
>turn on for me. Also one of the most aggravating things
in the world is
>having to get up in middle of night to go pee. having
sub available at
>foot of bed to receive it for me..keeps me warm in
middle of night.
>just call me a pratical woman.
>
>Patricia
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #17
***********************************************
From - Fri Sep 13 12:56:54 1996
>> Hmm... a quick trip to _Goddesses in World
Mythology_ by Martha Ann &
>> Dorothy Myers Imel revealed a large number of
African goddesses. The first
>> section is devoted entirely to them (excluding
Egypt, which has its own
>> extensive section). I quit counting them around
100--which was still in the
>> "E" listings. Modern worshippers in Voudoun,
Umbanda, etc. would be very
>> surprised to hear that God/dess worship was
non-African!
>>
>> --Lady Phoenix
>
> I may be wrong then - I'll check it out. It was -my-
>understanding that the African 'Goddesses' would be
more closely ascribed
>to the Nymphs of Greek mythology than the definition of
a god or goddess
>as having dominion over an entire aspect of nature
(-my- definition of a
>god or goddess as opposed to say a nymph, satyr, lamia
et al. It
>generally works for me but may not be what someone else
uses). I will see
>what I can find out.
> I'm completely unfamiliar with Umbanda, but I know
modern Voudoun
>is a mixture of a number of african religions with
christian overtones,
>at least to the best of my understanding. I only know a
very few
>practicianers though (This is Indianapolis, not New
Orleans - ) and
>I've found books on the subject notable for the number
of times they
>contradict each other - .
> Jonnan
>
>
The African Goddesses seem (to me) similar to Goddesses in
other
cultures--all the way from supreme diety/creator (Mawu,
Nyame, Tamuno,
Woyengi, etc.) to dieties of specific aspects of nature
(such as sea,
weather, moon, sun, stars, insects, and dieties of aspects
of human life
(childbirth, fertility, death, education, agriculture,
justice, etc.).
Umbanda is similar to Voudoun and comes via Brazil, along
with Macumba and
Candomble. Santeria and Ifa are two more African-based
syncretic religions.
All of these religions have pantheons that include powerful
goddesses who
definitely have "dominion over an entire aspect of nature."
One good example
is Yemanja-- "Goddess of Love and Sexuality, Water;
Unhappiness; Mother and
Guardian. Goddess of saltwater and freshwater. She is the
universal mother."
(from Goddesses in World Mythology)
I came across this on the Net:
"Every New Year's Eve, the wide beaches of Rio undergo an
extraordinary
one-night
transformation, changing from pleasure grounds for devotees
of sun and surf into
sanctuaries for believers in Umbanda, the city's largest
spirit sect. As the
sun sets, millions of people come together on the sands to
pay special
homage to the ruling divinity of the sea, Yemanja. Their
prayers ask for
blessings in matters of love; oftentimes they are outright
requests for
divine intervention. Gathered beside bonfires and candles,
they swirl to the
mesmerizing beat of drums and chant hymns. The climactic
moment comes at the
stroke of midnight when the worshippers rush to the water's
edge and close
their prayers by casting a bouquet of roses into the sea.
I remember standing there at the edge of the ocean with Pia
and the rest of
my family watching as millions of people, thousands of them
women dressed in
flowing white gowns, tossed roses into the dark waters. The
collective
desire to be loved was inspiring. The visual was simply
breathtaking. There
was a moment of pious silence where all you could hear was
the surf. The
faithful watched intently the flowers they had thrown, for
if these flowers
returned to shore, that meant their prayers had fallen on
deaf ears and the
new year would bring much heartache.
Pia was so taken by this moment that she commissioned a
street artist to
capture it with paints. Now that painting hangs above our
chimney.
Oftentimes I caught her looking at it. A look which said:
if white gowns and
red roses are the means to speak to God, what splendor
heaven must hold."
(http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~skypen/Pia/rio.html)
--Lady Phoenix
___________________________________________________________________
*********
From - Fri Sep 13 12:56:42 1996
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 16
Today's Topics:
Re: Advise please
Re: Advise please
Re: more goddesses
Re: more goddesses
Doing all the things that need to be done
Correction to the correction
Re: God/Goddess Worship
Re: Advise please
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: God/Goddess Worship
Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Re: Doing all the things that need to be done
Re: Advise please
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Chase Vogelsberg"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id: <199609121629.JAA07915@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia wrote:
>This feels like a plea for attention...oh please Jonnan
stay..I don't
>play that game anymore and will not be manipulated into
it at this late
>stage. Stay if you really want to learn...I certainly
have spent much
>time getting information to help you understand. If you
just want to be
>the winner of a debate...lurk..delurk..whatever.
Ah, felt like a plea for attention to you? Sounded more
like someone just
a little bemused by the extremes of 'attention' he was
already getting -
not to mention the extremes of vitriol accompanying it. For
instance, he
wrote and mentioned some historical atrocities, and
SOMEONE replied:
>don't patronize me with you college education....I have
one too.
As though if a man using words with more than two syllables
is a sign
that he's attempting to impress with his knowledge. Or,
being attacked
with :
>I never mentioned NASA..you did. Our research money did
not come from
>NASA...or the Military Budget....just like a man
putting his words in my
>mouth and then attacking me for using them.
Same person had written:
>It is the difference between the slash and burn
mentality that has so
>shamelessly despoiled our mother the earth who are now
spending billions
>on space flight and terraforming..coming up with real
scientific ways to
>make Mars habitable for humans after we have nothing
left on Earth.
Specific enough to space exploration / colonization to be
pretty easy to
see where he presumed NASA was being discussed, and not DOD
/ Military.
But somehow he's being just like a man and putting words in
someone's
mouth.
Jonnan was quoted:
> The Terror was noted for the female involvement,
> which may -imply- that there was little female
involvement in the
> protestant catholic wars and the accusations during
the inquisition.
And again, virulent reaction:
>Women did not design the manifestos or the systems to
impose these
>regimes. God, here we go with the damned if we do
damned if we don't
>stuff. Of course women were involved...we live under
the same
>patriarchal system...we follow the boys or die, many of
us die.
"Damned if we do, damned if we don't", as though Jonnan was
somehow out
to -blame- women for such things. And as though a lot of
'the boys'
weren't in the same situation - when the rulers started
something, the
men could either follow or die, same's the women. Sorry,
but with the
Holocaust, with other moral outrages, people, male -or-
female, have a
choice to make. A lot of good people, female -and- male,
decided that
they'd rather die than commit atrocities, or actively
opposed them. Not
nearly enough - but it seems that male or female, most
people are just a
little bit unwilling to die. Fancy that.
Y'know, I wish I hadn't cleaned out the mailbox a bit -
there's been an
-awful- lot of reactionary flaming going on, often in the
same breath as
talk about tolerance and respect for other people's
beliefs. Myself, I'm
a rabid atheist, and often speak out against Xians, as
Spirit Wind has
noticed, I'm sure. But it's odd that the -most- intolerant,
disrespectful
thing said of late, "Fuck Christ" and more to that effect,
came from the
same woman who asks for people to show some respect for her
different be-
liefs, speaks of how with women it's more tolerant, that
she hadn't been
aware that this was a "defend christianity" mailing list,
etc.
Well, I've been here a while, an' I thought I was on a mail
list that was
in the business of discussing, among other things, ways to
help empower
women, discuss how the feminine principle could be promoted
in government,
business and society, and such like. Not the
"bash-men/flame-others-
religions/make-men-eat-scat" list, which it lately seems
like its becoming.
Feh. I'm gonna return to lurking, an' no, this isn't a plea
for
attention, just a matter of me having said my piece. This
is, and should
be, Woman's Space, and I don't intend to start disrupting
that. But blood
an' bone, I wasn't going to keep quiet about something I
felt was wrong,
either. THat's what happened in nazi Germany, remember?
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:42:39 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-ID: <323875BE.3646@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia responds:
your response is vitriolic and not mine...congrats...ah
male bonding.
I mentioned nothing about men being shit. It was men on
this list who
kept on correcting women for not be specific. I did not
mention NASA.
If you had jumped to the defense of the women on this list
who were
being attacked for not reading the correct words that one
of these men
said, I would be more impressed with you fairness. I will
not jump to
your nazi bait...I am not a nazi,, I work for no money
defending peoples
rights to housing and fair wages...I have all my life.
that is a giant flame implying I am Nazi because I am
strong,
intelligent woman....but you know what...I have better fish
to fry then
waste my time with this pointless talking to any of you men
anymore...
Patricia
Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
-
> not to mention the extremes of vitriol accompanying
it.
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: pgm@servtech.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: more goddesses
Message-Id:
<199609121823.OAA26463@cyber2.servtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:33 PM 9/11/96 -0700, Patricia wrote:
>and Joseph Campbell muses:
>Full circle, from the tomb of the womb to the womb of
the tomb, we come:
>an ambiguous, enigmatical incursion into a world of
solid matter that is
>soon to melt from us, like the substance of a dream...
>Men through their recorded history in myth, religion
and folklore seek
>to be the hero .. and in all these recorded events and
myths they say
>ultimately that the hero is the man of self-achieved
submission. But
>submission to what...asks Joseph Campbell in the Hero
with a thousand
>Faces.....the women on this list would answer...I
think, many of
>us...submission to the feminine..the female..the life
principle.
Hey, we have another Campbell fan on the list..coolness.
Campbell was
pretty insightful...for a guy ;) And you made an
interesting connection
between hero submission and the female principle. To me,
this is what it's
all about...molding/improving myself (perhaps even to hero
status, but that
seems unlikely) so that I can serve and assist the female
principle more
effectively.
To continue Joseph's quote:
"Submission of what?
That is the primary virtue and deed of the hero to
resolve."
Sorry for the interruption....you may all return to the
intellectual p*ssing
contest/flame thing now.... Warm regards, Paul/mp
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:30:14 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: more goddesses
Message-ID: <323880E6.25BD@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well sometimes intelligent and sometimes not but to you
maidpaula and to
all my sisters on this list my wish is
FOLLOW YOUR BLISS
Patricia
pgm@servtech.com wrote:
>
> At 09:33 PM 9/11/96 -0700, Patricia wrote:
> >and Joseph Campbell muses:
> >Full circle, from the tomb of the womb to the womb
of the tomb, we come:
> >an ambiguous, enigmatical incursion into a world
of solid matter that is
> >soon to melt from us, like the substance of a
dream...
> >Men through their recorded history in myth,
religion and folklore seek
> >to be the hero .. and in all these recorded events
and myths they say
> >ultimately that the hero is the man of
self-achieved submission. But
> >submission to what...asks Joseph Campbell in the
Hero with a thousand
> >Faces.....the women on this list would answer...I
think, many of
> >us...submission to the feminine..the female..the
life principle.
>
> Hey, we have another Campbell fan on the
list..coolness. Campbell was
> pretty insightful...for a guy ;) And you made an
interesting connection
> between hero submission and the female principle. To
me, this is what it's
> all about...molding/improving myself (perhaps even to
hero status, but that
> seems unlikely) so that I can serve and assist the
female principle more
> effectively.
>
> To continue Joseph's quote:
>
> "Submission of what?
> That is the primary virtue and deed of the hero to
resolve."
>
> Sorry for the interruption....you may all return to
the intellectual p*ssing
> contest/flame thing now.... Warm regards, Paul/mp
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: jet@nwlink.com (jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Doing all the things that need to be done
Message-Id:
<199609122038.NAA00203@montana.nwlink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
peter--
>I don't think that men think about it that deeply even
when they do
>try to make it difficult for women.
Probably not as most seem to mindlessly go through life
instead of
mindfully. I mean most people, not just men, which is why
women
have such a hard time getting a stronghold in patriarchal
society,
and it would probably be the same in a matriarchal society.
Remember
Phyllis Schaffley (I think that was her name).
>One of the main reasons why more women don't reach
positions of power
>is they tend to spread themselves too thinly while men
tend to
>concentrate on a subject and ignore other things.
This is true...that's why women need subs/slaves to do the
things
that usually take up time when we could be doing things
that help
promote Female Supremacy.
>Although I agree that women are superior to men I can't
imagine how
>the world will develop. Will it just be like today but
with as many
>women in positions of power as men are now and more men
will have the
>lowly jobs .... or will society grant women some
institutionalised
>power? My guess is the former.
I think that society will grant men some institutionalized
power, myself.
:)
Jet
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:10:12 -0800
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Correction to the correction
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I, personally, feel that Chase is out of line attempting to
set Patricia
straight. She is obviously a highly intellegent and
opinionated Supreme
Female and it is "quite like a man" to attempt to squelch
that. If she had
truly been *that* far out of line... don't you think our FS
moderator would
be more suited to address that issue than you?
I'm definately new to this list but not to FS. It made no
sense to Me for
you to take this path, Chase. If you think *I* am out of
line... spare Me
your correction. BTW, this is not intended as a "flame."
You may, however,
assume that this is one Supreme Female setting forth an
observation.
Leather
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
\ /
http://www.leatherme.com P.O. Box 86689 \ O /
\/Y\/
http://www.zephyr.net/leather/ Portland, OR )\
_____/__\______
toll free: 1-888-233-2055 97286-0689
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:35:58 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Leather, would you please give some general idea of how you
teach your sons
the concepts of FS?
Thank you
Peter>
>
>
>I have two teenage sons. Teaching them the concepts of
FS has not been
>easy. Society teaches them something different (men
have "the" power)... it
>is a struggle for them to choose not to buy into it.
>
>As a girl, I would have chosen FS was an option instead
of resign to
>females finding a man and cleaving (in submission) to
him. Ack!!! Thank
>Goddess I grew up and discovered My own truths! I'd
hate to have died early
>and ignorant... never having known the pleasure of My
"own" power!
>
>Leather
>
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>>
>leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
> \ /
>http://www.leatherme.com P.O. Box 86689 \ O /
> \/Y\/
>http://www.zephyr.net/leather/ Portland, OR )\
> _____/__\______
>toll free: 1-888-233-2055 97286-0689
>
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:36:48 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To add to Patricia:
Jonnan, you're not going to win. The women on this list are
just too strong
for you. They're either going to like what you say, or not
like what you
say. And they'll let you know.
What you do is entirely up to you. You can stay on this
list and enjoy some
postings, trash others you find boring, respond to others,
whatever. But,
whatever you do, be polite.
Nobody is forcing you to stay.
Peter>
>
>
>This feels like a plea for attention...oh please Jonnan
stay..I don't
>play that game anymore and will not be manipulated into
it at this late
>stage. Stay if you really want to learn...I certainly
have spent much
>time getting information to help you understand. If you
just want to be
>the winner of a debate...lurk..delurk..whatever. You
seem to be under
>the impression that the books have told you everything.
but the books
>are written under a patriarchal system that only
rewards those who
>uphold the system...you seem to have difficulty
understanding that basic
>premise.
>Patricia
>
>
>(deleted alot)
>
>> Jonnan West wrote:
>>
>>
>> > At any rate, it's not a level of decorum I
can trust myself -to-
>> > hold to, and I therefore need a (consensus is
not quite the right term,
>> > but I can't think of anything better) from
those with a long-term
>> > understanding of the nature of debate on this
mailing list.
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:48 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID: <32386891.164480263@post.demon.co.uk>
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Peter Saxton wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:45:03 -0400, Laura wrote:
>
>> >Here's some scat-logic for literal types:
>
>> >Everything that women produce is shit
>> >Women produce males
>> >Therefore males are shit! ;)
>
>> Don't women produce females, too?
>
>That's a _reductio_, Peter. It's how I got into trouble
in the first
>place.
>
Sorry, I better quickly crawl away! :-)
peter
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:45:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: aehthex@magi.com (Lorraine Jobin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship
Message-Id: <199609130045.UAA10472@infoweb.magi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello everyone:
Would someone be so kind as to send me a copy of this poem?
The mail server
was down and I did not receive any posting for the 9th
& 10th. I must have
missed some interesting posts judging from the volume and
callibre of
replies. Thanks!!
>Patricia wrote-
>
>Thank you for the beautiful and haunting poem...it is
one of my favorites
>as well. Here is a class example of a woman who was
squashed by
>patriarchy... I can understand and this is why I
subscribe to this list
>and I am trying to raise my daughter with the high
ideals I see here.
>I do not want her to have to struggle as we do and hope
that by the time
>she is an adult, it will be more equal or at the very
least much more
>supportive of women. If not, perhaps she will be
another of the catalysts.
>
>Jet
>
>>and this is for Dee Ann and Laura and Jet and
Sorceress and Leather and
>>all the wonderful and wonder-filled women on this
list, and to the
>>hundreds of millions of women who have been
wounded, scared, altered,
>>killed by Patriachy...and those millions who have
survived and thrived
>>even within the half-life that Patriarchy has
allowed them..each is my
>>sister..this is a gift of a favorite poem of mine
that I identify with
>>totally.
>>
>>HER KIND, by Anne Sexton
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:34:37 -0700
From: jnbry@ix.netcom.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Message-Id: <1996912203330541@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This is more or less responsive to the surrender/bliss
thread but mainly its
just something I want to say.
Since human history began, people (particularly men?) have
"submitted", in
the realest sense of the word, to causes and beliefs. There
is an innate
desire to be a part of something larger -- a nation,
religion, a political
movement, a business organization. The heroic by definition
is the single
individual suffering for some larger and nobler cause.
This sacrifice of individuals to find purpose and direction
from a variety
of external higher sources is something almost everyone
accepts.
Growing up in a fundamentalist rural church, there was
nothing out of the
ordinary to see some burly farmer weeping openly as he
walked down the aisle
in front of family and friends to repent of real or
imagined sins whilst the
congregation banged out yet another chorus of "Just as I
Am" just in case he
had somehow forgotten what a "wretch" he truely was.
We all understood his need to beg for forgiveness and
mercy. His worship of
a being that he had never seen and which may or may not
exist was "normal",
even if taken to extremes. The emotional catharsis of his
act of submission
to the devine was *powerful* and he left the experience
feeling clean and
renewed.
About a year ago, I began to worship the special woman who
now rules my
life. I loved her before, but now I love, honor and obey
her. I am at her
feet, both figuratively and literally, every day. There is
nothing mystical
about this, but the feeling of only being complete when I
submit to her is
more fulfilling than anything else I have found.
My wife won't ever walk on water or turn water into wine.
She does not know
the eternal secrets of life. She is a flawed human being,
as are we all.
Nontheless, I prefer to invest my devotion in a flawed
human being that I
can touch and serve and love. It is the only thing I have
found in this
life that is akin to an honest religious experience.
For *her*, I would go on any crusade even if all she
usually asks of me is
that I clean the kitchen.
Jim
PS: I'm not saying others aren't honest in their religion;
in fact, my wife
is as religious as I am agnostic. Just before she packs our
three boys into
the minivan to take them to church sunday morning she
always gives me
instructions as to what to do while she is gone. I think it
is a way cool
contrast.
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:36:13 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Doing all the things that need to be done
Message-ID: <32388a86.173174826@post.demon.co.uk>
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT), Jet wrote:
>peter--
>
>>One of the main reasons why more women don't reach
positions of power
>>is they tend to spread themselves too thinly while
men tend to
>>concentrate on a subject and ignore other things.
>
>This is true...that's why women need subs/slaves to do
the things
>that usually take up time when we could be doing things
that help
>promote Female Supremacy.
>
Most of my girlfriends have not been feminists never mind
female
supremacists and I would never dare announce that I was
submissive to
women for fear of being thought a weirdo! My way would be
more subtle,
getting a woman drinks, massaging her feet, offering to do
the
shopping, washing up, cleaning, etc. I can't think of one
woman who
didn't accept the situation and didn't take full advantage
of it. I
think most people believe in equality at work and I'm sure
that
practically all women would go along with female supremacy
at home but
I don't see how the majority of men are going to be
convinced unless
women insist on the equality of their children.
>>Although I agree that women are superior to men I
can't imagine how
>>the world will develop. Will it just be like today
but with as many
>>women in positions of power as men are now and more
men will have the
>>lowly jobs .... or will society grant women some
institutionalised
>>power? My guess is the former.
>
>I think that society will grant men some
institutionalized power, myself.
>:)
>
>Jet
>
I promise I didn't mean it the way it sounded! :-)
peter
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:50 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-ID: <323869f0.164831084@post.demon.co.uk>
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:42:10 -0500 (EST), Jonnan wrote:
> Okay. This is a Femsupremacy mailing list. I -knew-
this was a
>Femsupremacy mailing list when I saw it on the sight I
found it on, I
>knew I was distinctly -not- definable as a
Femsupremist, before I joined
>and I up and joined anyway, read several days worth of
mail to get the
>general 'flavor' of the discourse, saw an intelligent
group of people
>debating an interesting philosophy (albeit one I
disagreed with on a
>number of levels) and wanted to know the rationale
behind the philosophy.
>
> I posted a long, fairly involved letter, and have
gotten a great
>deal from the responses to that letter, positive and
negative, and have
>attempted to follow the threads resulting from it to
the best of my
>ability. Some of the areas I -thought- I knew fairly
well, I obviously
>need more education in but even -that- information is
not information I
>would have had had I not involved myself. Some other
areas I believe I
>made valid points in, and -hopefully- explained -my-
rationale and
>assumptions fairly well.
>
> However I have evidently -not- been as polite in my
debate as I
>would have hoped, and have severely offended at least
one person and
>noted that at least two others evidently feel me to be
a disruptive
>influence whose presence would not be missed. If I felt
my writing skills
>and ability to communicate were up to the task of
maintaining a higher
>level of decorum on a consistent basis, I might simply
refrain from
>posting unless I could consistently maintain such a
level of decorum. I
>will confess I didn't see that such a level was
necessary, but, a guest
>in my home is not permitted the same level of
familiarity as someone whom
>I have supped with for years, and I -am- the interloper
who barged in
>requesting the secrets of the universe in small,
easy-to-handle pieces,
>so perhaps it is a level that -I- need to be held to,
if I am to debate
>on a list from an essentially contradictory viewpoint.
>
> So the question becomes, do I, as an person already
announced to
>be in conflict on some levels with the espoused views
of those on this
>mailing list, have a right or a need to remain on this
list against the
>notable objections of members in good standing who feel
that there is a
>certain basic assumption that, females or feminine
qualities, however
>defined, are intrinsically superior to males or
masculine qualities, that
>should be shared by anyone actively participating in
discourse on this
>list, and that those who are -not- in alignment with
that assumption,
>should debate their philosophy elsewhere.
>
I would think it very difficult for someone who doesn't
believe in the
superiority of females to contribute positively to this
list over any
length of time.
I may not agree with many things said but I think your
"heart needs to
be in the right place" if the list is going to be useful.
I am not the kind of person that can develop by just
reading other
people's opinions - I need to contribute. I also accept
that there are
many people on the list who have thought about the subjects
discussed
much more deeply than I have and therefore my comments may
be stupid,
inappropriate, boring or wrong! But not all the time! :-)
If I am criticised I can usually understand the other
persons point of
view and consider my comments again. Even if I find I still
disagree
it has at least helped to reinforce my views so I would
still
appreciate the comment and treat the person with respect.
At this early stage I am still a bit of an embarrassment
but I think
in time I will make a great improvement but I still believe
that
fundamentally you should be a believer in female supremacy.
peter
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
*********
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #16
***********************************************
From - Sun Sep 15 17:58:40 1996
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 18
Today's Topics:
Re: Advise please
Re: Advise please
Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Re: Advise please
Re: Advise please
Re: Surrender & Bliss 1 more time
Re: God/Goddess Worship
Re: Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Re: Delay In Messages
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Room on that Broomstick ?
Re: Delay In Messages
Re: Advise please
Re: Doing all the things that need to be done
Re: Advise please
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:27:43 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
<2.2.32.19960913132743.006a4f04@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:42 PM 9/12/96 -0700, Noble wrote:
>Patricia responds:
>I mentioned nothing about men being shit.
Actually shit came up as a topic because a sub male on the
list wanted to
bare his breast about his fetish for eating it, some other
sub male praised
the practice, I published my ambivalent tale of love and
disgust, and later
a silly little syllogism. As far as I know, there been no
other discussion
on that pungent topic, and my hubby wishes you all would
get on the ball!
He was kind of hoping that *somebody* here would somehow
make it all OK for
me. ;)
Laura Goodwin
"All forms of fanaticism are suspect. The humane society
of the future, which we now build, will appreciate
diversity
and reward tolerant behavior."
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:05:12 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-ID:
In message
<2.2.32.19960913132756.006b62c8@popd.ix.netcom.com>,
Laura
Goodwin writes
>
>"CAN THAT NOISE, OR YOU ARE OUT OF HERE!"
>
>If you are allowed in at all, it should be with the
understanding that you
>will respect us and not interfere with us. If you do
not do this, and are
>not ejected, it reflects poorly on the group and
especially the group's
>leadership. The longer disruptive and non-supportive
behavior is allowed on
>this list, the more it looks like femsupremacy is a
bunch of hooey. I, for
>one, do not intend to let anybody think that.
>
>Laura Goodwin
>
>
>"All forms of fanaticism are suspect. The humane
society
>of the future, which we now build, will appreciate
diversity
>and reward tolerant behavior."
>
>___________________________________________________________________
Hey, hey, this is getting too serious,
how does Jonnan show disrespect?
how does Jonnan disrupt?
the mite has asked questions, some challenging, some a bit
verbose,
maybe some might grate with some characters, maybe he has
some learning
to do,
but it reads very strange to our eyes to read what Jonnan
has said, the
poor guy even opens his bowels to grovel about whether he
should be here
in the first place, then to read what you say in your main
post Laura
AND then to read whatever it is called that follows your
signature (not
being catty, it is our lack of technical knowhow). You used
the idea of
a religious service, but this is not a ritual service it is
a discussion
group.
Laura, please look at it all from another planet where
perhaps they had
never heard of gender, a lovely place full of andrognynous
rubber clad
happy creatures free from threat,
we think those viewers, given that they also had the
rational brains we
all have, might find something of a tension between your
clarion call to
presumably boot Jonnan and those final three lines.
Jonnan seems to us nowhere near a Tony. Yes, we go along
with the idea
that we were well rid of him, but before too long if the
consensus is
that the arrival of folk like Jonnan cannot be coped with,
enjoyed and
disagreed with if you wish, if instead it brings out the
"this is
private and our territory", we will probably both quietly
go. Actually
this is, for bad or good, a very public list, all you do is
press a
button and you're there, there is as yet no entry exam
marked by Dee-
Ann! There is a call to be sympathetic and respectful of
participants
and the varied beliefs many have in fs. We say again what
has Jonnan
said that is just so OTT? And if at any stage he came near
to ever being
a touch rude, as Chase reminded us all, that tendency may
have been two
way.
--
fiona and robert forsythe
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 96 16:20:34 EDT
From: OhEadhra <101342.2030@CompuServe.COM>
To: FS
Subject: Surrender/bliss: A religious experience?
Message-ID:
<960913202033_101342.2030_GHW96-1@CompuServe.COM>
Jim wrote :
>Nonetheless, I prefer to invest my devotion in a flawed
human being that I
>can touch and serve and love. It is the only thing I
have found in this
>life that is akin to an honest religious experience.
Totally correct !! From the age of 5, I lost interest in
religion - from the
age of 13 I adored women. Laura, as usual, hit the nail on
the head -
men worship women, and leave the spiritual aspects to women
- suits me!
Dennis (t.o.m)
She wears chains of bondage
She wears the wings of hope
She wears the gown of plenty
and still its hard to cope
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:43:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: aehthex@magi.com (Lorraine Jobin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id: <199609132143.RAA29664@infoweb.magi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Laura:
A couple of years ago, subbie was lying on the floor next
to the bed
like the good little doggie he is, when suddenly he said:
"Mistress, I
would eat or drink anything that came from you. I would eat
your shit,
drink your piss...", yadda yadda yadda. I thought it was
just his bizarre
way of endearing himself to me. Boy, was I green. You can
just imagine how
freaked out I was when I realized he meant it literally!
Well, a couple of
months ago, he was coming to Ottawa for a visit, so I
thought I would
surprise him and buy him a double doggie dish and leave it
on the bathroom
floor. I had not anticipated his response. He was floored
(teehee)! I was
grossed out. After bugging me and bugging me, I obliged,
but just a little
bit. The only reason I was able to do it was because I was
upset at him
about something (not the way I like to conduct business,
thank you very
much), and made it a punishment. That was the only way I
could do it and so
far, that is the only time. I have no problem with urine or
any other
bodily fluid. But I just can't cottonelle to that one! In
my case, it
isn't that I would not do it again for him. I love him and
would fulfill
just about any of his needs. All I want to know is -WHY?
Why that?! He
doesn't know.
He lived in Holland for a few years and from what he has
told me, the girls
he met over there have absolutely no qualms about it. He
told me about
these nightclubs where men pay to lie under the toilet so
that women can pee
and shit on them. I don't care where he's been, but I'm not
so sure I could
oblige him all the time now. Not so much that I don't want
to -just why?
It really is a filthy hangup --
Maybe billy or peter or someone could enlighten (?) me,
maybe by private
e-mail, but I don't mind sharing. We seem to be getting
just a wee bit off
the fs topic and I don't want to offend anybody.
Sorry Bruce, I'm with Laura -
Mistress Lorraine
Laura wrote:
>Actually shit came up as a topic because a sub male on
the list wanted to
>bare his breast about his fetish for eating it, some
other sub male praised
>the practice, I published my ambivalent tale of love
and disgust, and later
>a silly little syllogism. As far as I know, there been
no other discussion
>on that pungent topic, and my hubby wishes you all
would get on the ball!
>He was kind of hoping that *somebody* here would
somehow make it all OK for
>me. ;)
>
>Laura Goodwin
>
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
<199609132242.PAA21489@netcom18.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1064
>
> Sorry Bruce, I'm with Laura -
>
> Mistress Lorraine
>
me, too, if anyone were to ask.
BUT
as squicked as I am for both aesthetic reasons and because
of the
year spent living with my bother's HIV-laced shit, I still
would support
having the discussion here for those for whom it might be
important.
Though we should always be respectful of one another and
stay more or less
on-topic, it seems that this should be a safe place to
discuss any aspect
of FS or related topics and events. ^^^^ ^^^
My own line would be drawn at the ab-use of children or
animals, but nowhere
else.
Jonnan: Welcome. Think terse, polish your thoughts, heed
your Betters in
their space (perhaps better than I have learned to do). And
enjoy. :)
Everyone: be careful out there.
c.s.
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 96 18:43:02 EDT
From: Jon Woolven <100410.1764@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Surrender & Bliss 1 more time
Message-ID:
<960913224302_100410.1764_JHU110-1@CompuServe.COM>
>From me:
>Kalika says if only more men were prepared to
surrender. From my
>perspective, if only there were more Kalikas who would
appreciate male
>surrender.
>From Kalika:
>Why Jon, I'll take that as a nice compliment .
>From me again:
Thank you Kalika, it was certainly meant that way. There
are some people you
instantly warm to, even in an Email world, and you were one
of those
from your very first message. Incidentally, Kalika is a
wonderful name.
I nearly included something about BDSM relationships in my
original reply, but
I edited it out because I'm worried about the volume on
this list. It's
exciting to
see the community growing, but how much traffic can we
sustain? My mailing
service freezes at 100 messages, so if I can't access the
list in three days, I
lose
messages. I suspect we'll reach crisis point soon and may
need to split into
sub communities.
[Incidentally to Jonnan - if you're a student, shouldn't
you knuckle down to
studying
some time, unless perhaps you're on such an enlightened
course as Post
Patriarchal
Studies?
If you're still trying to explore the logic behind Female
Supremacy, consider
the
impact of male and female hormones. Male hormones were
valuable when there
were aggressive environments that had to be tamed, but what
is their value now?
Why
are criminals predominantly male? Why is domestic violence
predominantly male?
Which gender provides the main source of aggresion and
where might this lead if
not curtailed?]
So Kalika, I fully agree with what you say about BDSM
relationships.
What goes on below the surface is very complex and subtle
and in my experience
genuine Female Dominants are usually exceptionally
considerate and unselfish.
However, they appear to be few and far between and so my
chances of forming a
relationship with an enlightened Kalika are, I suspect,
remote. I do believe
there
are many latent female dominants and so I welcome any
contribution our
community might make to helping more women find such
fulfillment (okay, I admit, there may be some self-interest
in there too).
However, I currently enjoy a very balanced relationship
with a wonderful,
intelligent,
simultaneously assertive yet vulnerable woman. BDSM will
surely always be a
minority
pursuit and so if we are to build a practical blueprint for
a better world we
must extend
our philosophies to the mainstream. That was the sprit
behind my message.
Surrender
is a minority pursuit. How can we encourage an harmonious,
sustainable,
relationship
between the sexes amongst the mass population?
If I ever figure that out, I promise to let you all know!
Regards
Jon
___________________________________________________________________
*********
------------------------------
Date: F