femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 191
Today's Topics:
Re: Stretching Limits:
Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Greetings
A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Re: Working for Her
Re: Dungeons for rent?
Just saw 12 Monkeys on PPV
Re: Greetings
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:24:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Stretching Limits:
Message-Id: <199608271224.FAA11253@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kalika wrote:
> I feel that it is solidly the responsibility of the
male, as the
> representative of the male principle, to accede to the
wishes / desires of
> the Goddess. In doing so, he may, if it has been
previously agreed to, or if
> this is an occasion of "open" dialog ... he may then
offer to Her, his
> readiness to assist Her in the expansion of Her
"horizons". However, if this
> has not been agreed to previously, and it is not now a
time of open dialog /
> discussion, then he must wait until such a time
occurs. At no time, should
> he make even the *slightest* effort to "push" his
desires / wishes, on Her.
>
> If She allows him to make this offering, but She
declines for whatever
> reason (an no reason need be given IMHO), the matter
is *closed* until the
> next scheduled "dialog". Certainly, a Goddess may find
pleasure in knowing
> that Her male wishes to "extend" himself in order to
please / pleasure Her
> ... and this knowledge, when properly offered, can in
and of itself, be a
> source of pleasure for Her, even if She has no
interest in such an
> expansion, at this time.
>
> IMHO, males need to learn patience ... they need to
learn to subdue the male
> ego and focus on the wishes of the Goddess, ... to
remain quiet ... to
> observe and learn ... to accept deference to Her as a
natural occurance.
> (This could also, sometimes, be taken to apply to
males on this List .)
>
> In so doing, he will grow both in his ability to
please Her, and also his
> opportunity to experience the joy, the bliss that can
occur when the ego is
> made quiet and the true essence of the male principle
then comes forth. This
> is an occasion of joy for all ... it is, really, a
natural thing.
Well, I'm not going to go off over your early use of
'always', and I most
certainly agree that most people, probably males above all,
should learn
a lot more patience. But I may take some exception with the
last sentence,
first quoted paragraph, "At no time should he make the
*slightest* effort
to push his desires on Her."
Now, I note also the references to dialogs in which the
male can express
himself, presumably in terms of his feelings, needs, and
desires, and I do
see where these might be sufficient to allay my concerns.
It'd all depend
on the frequency and nature of the dialogs, and how much
communication was
allowed on the part of the male....
If they're infrequent enough, then I personally wouldn't
think it improper
for him to bring something to the Lady's attention.
'Pushing' his wishes
on her, perhaps, but hopefully not in a demanding way. For
instance....
He might be getting stressed out, perhaps from a need for a
little more af-
fection, perhaps a need for the catharsis of some pain. If
it's been too
long since a period of open communication in which he was
formally allowed
to bring such matters up, I wouldn't think it improper for
him to subtly
bring it to his Lady's attention - she may be Goddess, but
she's probably
not omniscient.
The key, imo, is patience - not expecting instant
gratification, and not
bringing it up at the first pangs of longing. Acceding to
her will is all
good and fine, yes; indeed, I'd think that he should be
going out of his
way to please her, before bringing something up. But it's
still a
relationship, one in which both (or all) party's needs must
be met, else
the relationship is likely to eventually self-destruct.
Again, I'm not sure that what Kalika wrote, and meant, is
contrary to what
I just did; just a matter of slightly differing emphasis.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:24:46 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID:
FE>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
FE>stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to
expand to a dynamic worl
FE>with political power.
FE>Please forward opinions and ideas.
FE>_Xantippe Movement_.
I have two daughters, aged 23 & 26, who are both
powerful, well-educated and devout feminists.
Each has devoted her professional life to adressing
the problems of powerlessness in less fortunate
women's lives.
So, we are on our way!
B
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 96 09:42:11 EDT
From: Marissa <103267.1522@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID:
<960827134211_103267.1522_IHH41-1@CompuServe.COM>
Xantippe writes:
>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand
to a dynamic
worldwide movement
with political power.
Please forward opinions and ideas.
_Xantippe Movement_<<br />
Actually, what younger generation Women require are
positive Female role models
that demonstrate what is possible in their lives both
personally and
professionally. Then and only then may FS grow to its full
potential.
I grew up with a mother who was a university professor who
also demonstrated
through her support of my actions that anything I wished to
try for was
obtainable. Additionally, she was extremely comfortable and
confident in her
sexuality and self-image. We shared many happy hours
discussing my
hopes/desires/fears for the future as well as a number of
conversation about how
better things might be if Women were viewed differently.
It was also obvious now in retrospect that my household was
a microcosm of FS in
action as Mom was the breadwinner and Dad deferred to her
on most key issues. He
also adored and worshipped her. From this setting I am sure
I formulated my
opinions and then added to them relative to FS. I only hope
that if and when
someday I have a Daughter, I can be half as successful with
her as Mom was with
me.
Marissa
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:32:41 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com
To: xantippe@cd-online.nl
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-Id: <1996827103422341@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
>
>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
>stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to
expand to a dynamic
worldwide movement
>with political power.
>Please forward opinions and ideas.
>
>_Xantippe Movement_.
Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe movement"
person, and why
the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a fig
for "her" opinion?
Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I
assume there is
at least one actual person behind this so-called movement,
and I'd
ordinarily like to know who the hell it is, but in this
case I have been
given no good reason. If "xantippe movement"'s expressed
views were at
least fresh, either heartfelt or interesting or both, then
maybe I'd be
intrigued, but the way it stands, it looks like some lonely
sub trying to
defraud femdom women into corresponding via email.
As for the idea of uniting femdoms and female supremacists
worldwide, lots
of us are already working on it and have been for decades,
and no Janie-
come-lately who doesn't know her history and who has no
name is going to
improve much on the good work that's already been done.
Laura Goodwin
Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
thing I know how to fast!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:32:54 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Message-ID:
FE>We are looking for LADIES/GIRLS for the promotion,set
up,and management of a
FE>inwhere the later global FS is imitated.
FE>Please respond.
FE>No submales..unless intended to sponsor
FE>support,or contribute.
FE>_Xantippe Movement_.
May I have more information, please?
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:50:19 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <32236D9B.1A12@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
Patricia...
introduction would have been nice
lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
> >
> >Only when the younger generation*girls* are
> >stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able
to expand to a dynamic
> worldwide movement
> >with political power.
> >Please forward opinions and ideas.
> >
> >_Xantippe Movement_.
>
> Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe
movement" person, and why
> the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a
fig for "her" opinion?
>
> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement...I assume there is
> at least one actual person behind this so-called
movement, and I'd
> ordinarily like to know who the hell it is, but in
this case I have been
> given no good reason. If "xantippe movement"'s
expressed views were at
> least fresh, either heartfelt or interesting or both,
then maybe I'd be
> intrigued, but the way it stands, it looks like some
lonely sub trying to
> defraud femdom women into corresponding via email.
>
> As for the idea of uniting femdoms and female
supremacists worldwide, lots
> of us are already working on it and have been for
decades, and no Janie-
> come-lately who doesn't know her history and who has
no name is going to
> improve much on the good work that's already been
done.
>
> Laura Goodwin
>
> Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
> all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
> thing I know how to fast!
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:51:37 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Message-ID: <32236DE9.7D42@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
besides...i am neither a lady or a girl...nor do I aspire
to be one....
Patricia
sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
>
> FE>We are looking for LADIES/GIRLS for the
promotion,set up,and management of a
> FE>inwhere the later global FS is imitated.
> FE>Please respond.
> FE>No submales..unless intended to sponsor
> FE>support,or contribute.
>
> FE>_Xantippe Movement_.
>
> May I have more information, please?
> CybErotiComm Online
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-Id: <199608271934.MAA19452@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Noble Patricia wrote:
> I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
> Patricia...
> introduction would have been nice
> lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe
movement" person, and why
> > the hell should any true femdoms give a feather
or a fig for "her" opinion?
This Xantippe person appears to be a male, 52 years old,
over in Europe,
with a persecution complex and plans to come to the USA,
who among other
things is looking for some generous soul to house him in
the name of
furthering female supremacy. :)
Aren't you glad you asked for an introduction? Note: This
information
culled from xantippe's -public- postings on alt.sex.femdom.
> > Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement...
*chuckle* Yep. I thought -I- was pretty arrogant, but....
;-)
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:14:52 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <3223816C.5A4C@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
good information and sleuthing.....good job
Patricia
Chase Vogelsberg wrote:
>
> This Xantippe person appears to be a male, 52 years
old, over in Europe,
> with a persecution complex and plans to come to the
USA, who among other
> things is looking for some generous soul to house him
in the name of
> furthering female supremacy. :)
>
> Aren't you glad you asked for an introduction? Note:
This information
> culled from xantippe's -public- postings on
alt.sex.femdom.
>
> > > Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement...
>
> *chuckle* Yep. I thought -I- was pretty arrogant,
but.... ;-)
>
> -- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart
of darkness.
> -- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
> --
> -- The trouble with hell is that the ambient
temperature is above the flash
> -- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over
your drink.
> -- Alexis A Gilliland
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Greetings
Message-Id: <199608272049.NAA26998@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marissa and eric wrote:
> After awhile lurking and reading the wonderful
postings on this list, I
> have decided to come out into the open. My name is
Marissa and my husband
> is eric/maid erica. We have been involved in a FS
lifestyle for a number
> of years and while I knew there were others like
ourselves, I have never
> previously felt comfortable being open about it with
others. My thanks to
> all of you for providing the environment in which to
do so. We look
> forward to being active participants in the community.
Greetings an' salutations - nice to have you here with us,
so to speak. :)
I'm glad to hear you found this a comfortable space /
environment; not all
the people here on the list are FS (or even femdom)
lifestylers, but I
think you'll find that anyone who isn't at least friendly
towards such is
encouraged to leave the list faster than they joined. Then
again, you've
been lurking a while, so you already know that. ;)
Blessed be,
Chase
PS: Dee-Anne, see? I -can- post a nice friendly something
or other from
time to time.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:11:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Message-Id:
<199608272111.OAA23523@netcom14.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2395
Friends-
I am doing my best to stay lurked until after the US Labor
Day weekend and
possibly longer, at least until my new PC is here and up
and I finish the
work I am doing at the behest of both my SWMBO and my Wise
Woman teacher
(otherwise unnamed). I owe some of you private mail for
some very kind
posts you have made, and I've got the guilts about that.
But several posts
have prompted me to post before I should.
'Twas I who wrote to the Xantippe 'movement' and invited
'them' to join us
here and on alt.women.supremacy. When I did this, I had all
the Usenet
information noted by Lawless and had in mind all the usual
reservations
expressed here today and some of my own as well: it's the
cops, it's a
19-year-old guy in a turned around baseball cap eating
chocolate-chip
cookies, it's a 52-old-guy (which makes him almost =my=
age, Heaven
forfend), it's the Religious Reich, etc. It even occurred
to me that
_mirabile dictu_ they could be who they say they are!
Usually when I privately write to people to tell them about
this List, I
make sure to say something like, 'as long as you don't
flame and treat
everyone with respect it's a _safe place_.' It has always
been a safe
place for me with my _really_ nutty Dead White Male ideas
and less than
Ladylike attitude, for which I am grateful to all of you:
can't it also
be that way for someone whose only real difficulty seems to
be a less
than perfect command of English and a slight cluelessness
about the good
work that has been done before, on & off the Net?
Forgive me all this effrontery from a sincere if bratty
little brother,
but I find this reception of Xantippe something less than
Sisterly.
Besides, I'd like to hear a _lot_ more about their idea of
networked
small FS communities, because, like it or not, the time of
tribalism is
upon us, folks. Chou-En-Lai said, "Let a hundred flowers
bloom."
Peace to all, and welcome Xantippe, whoever you are :)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it
count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Working for Her
Message-Id:
<199608272205.PAA29673@netcom14.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3597
Thanks to the wonderfully supple mind of the mysteriously
named zbobz and
to our new friends Marissa and eric -to whom Welcome!- for
this inspired
thread.
THe resaon I haven't been posting here is because I have
been up to my
uhm, eyeballs in Working For Her -several Hers, in fact-
these last
several weeks. This in fact has been my life for the last 4
or 5 years,
and it is getting more and more like this all the time.
All of my customers/clients except one are now Women, and
all of the
people I work with -they can no longer be called
'subcontractors,' can
they?- on different jobs are Women. It's a loose gaggle
-call it a guild
if you wish- of mostly post-corporate entrepreneuses who
are very aware of
themselves both as Women and as sovereign in the market and
elsewhere in
public life. One is my SWMBO of some years, others are
longtime friends,
some are fairly new but trusted acquaintances.
This arrangement now extends to well beyond making a
living: my spiritual
life, my money (such as it is) and most other aspects of my
life are now
in the hands of Women. My MD is still male- a very
enlightened one- but
that's about it.
There are other men in this community here and there, but
the whole tone
and spirit of all that we do is manifestly Feminine. Not
only are we
post-corporate, but live by the values of cooperation,
communication,
trust and a loosely circular view of power relationships.
Most of us feel
that we have transcended- and will outlive- the old
economic model of
competition, covetousness, exclusion, cynicism and
hierarchy. We feel that
we actually understand capital and investment in a way that
the good ol'
boys -whom I have deserted- never did. And when we're
cookin,' the money
is pretty good, too. :)
but
We are not Utopia: Earlier this summer I took a real
economic hit because
I strayed back into the old way of thinking about business
relationships,
and it will take me a year or two at least to dig out of
that little hole.
But this time I have the Big Sisters, the guild, the Tribe,
by whatever
name, there to help me and wish me well, and to keep me
busy. :)
The Women I work with, and their men, come in all flavors-
some are 'in
the Life' with crops and needles, some are a rich French
Vanilla; some are
as witchy as any of you, some are Christians; the ages
range from late 20s
to about 60, 3 are straight, the majority are richly bi, a
strong minority
are joyous, righteous dykes. All are Feminists of one
stripe or another
and all have a rich sense of both personal and collective
Womanhood. All
have a story of really hard times and have definitely paid
their dues. In
other words, they're a lot like You. :) Whatever my current
woes, in this
Sisterscape that surrounds me I am richly blessed.
Thanks to Marissa for giving us the 'look and feel' of a
Womanshaped
workplace: It's a much saner, calmer place, and my
impression is that
males who work for Women are far more realized as
individuals and in
their creative echoes than those still trapped in the boys'
club. Or so
it is with me (with or without the toenail polish- sounds
yummy, I admit).
Free at last,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it
count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:10:45 -0800
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Dungeons for rent?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
jwaren wrote:
>does anyone know if it is possible to rent a room or
whatever equipped as a
>dungeon with all the basics to set the proper mood ? To
make this even more
>difficult might there be something of this nature
located in the midwest ?
I don't know if you can access this publication in the
midwest... but there
are a few mags out here that carry ads for this stuff.
Check out T&A Times
and Erotica. You also might have some success in the
current publication of
"The Black Book", published by Amador Communications, PO
Box 31155, San
Fransisco, CA 94131-0155, Phone # (415) 282-7368... about
$12-15.
Gotta run... good to see you on this supreme list!
fondly,
Leather
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:28:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Just saw 12 Monkeys on PPV
Message-Id: <1996827223021341@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I just saw the movie *12 Monkeys* (finally) and thought it
totally rocked.
My kids didn't understand the ending...I said it's a happy
ending, because
the lady scientist there on the plane means that they are
wise to the bad
guys and will stop them, saving humanity. I believe it's
possible that
even the Bruce Willis character can be saved, why not? They
go back in
time, don't they? :)
I noticed lately lots of cool female characters in film.
All the women in
*Pulp Fiction* weren't your usual molls. We are talking
interesting women
characters who show intelligence and grit. They have
adventurous lives.
The Doctor played by Madeline Stowe in *12 Monkeys* is an
example.
Laura Goodwin
Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
thing I know how to fast!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:33:23 -0700 (PDT)
Marissa wrote:
>
> After awhile lurking and reading the wonderful
postings on this list, I have
> decided to come out into the open. My name is Marissa
and my husband's name is
> eric/maid erica. We have been involved in a FS
lifestyle for a number of years
> and while I knew there were others like ourselves, I
have never previously felt
> comfortable being open about it with others. My thanks
to all of you for
> providing the environment in which to do so. We look
forward to being active
> participants in the community.
I'm so glad that you feel this list is a comfy place. :)
Welcome!
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #191
************************************************
From - Fri Aug 30 19:08:41 1996
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 192
Today's Topics:
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
get your information correct TONY
Xantippe gets boofed up
Re: get your information correct TONY
Re: Xantippe gets boofed up
empusae has one of THOSE addresses
this one went wrong place too
Re: Working for Her
Re: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Re: this one went wrong place too
Re: get your information correct TONY
Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:39:51 -0700
You wrote:
>
>I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
>Patricia...
>introduction would have been nice
>
>lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>> On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
>> >
>> >Only when the younger generation*girls* are
>> >stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be
able to expand to a
dynamic
>> worldwide movement
>> >with political power.
>> >Please forward opinions and ideas.
>> >
>> >_Xantippe Movement_.
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe
movement" person,
and why
>> the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or
a fig for "her"
opinion?
>>
>> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement...I assume
there is
Patricia:
Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty arrogant
shit")
constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the spirit
and the
by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a flame, in
that (1)
you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant" without
making a
good-faith effort at understanding what her/his motives and
underlying
messages were; (2) you added fuel to the rhetorical fire by
further
labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically slapping the
poster in the
face before you learned anything about her/his ideas. (All
in all,
these sound like typically male "Neanderthal" tactics, to
me!) And to
think that a few months ago, I was berated summarily by
many of the
regular contributors to this group (including, I believe,
yourself) for
using somewhat milder language in response to what I still
contend were
pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or unwitting.
Also, how do you know that these posts from "xantippe" are
aimed at
"femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they are simply
aimed at
proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who have
nothing to do
with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it on the
giving or
receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly level at
these posts
is that they are too brief and the English is not perfect.
Otherwise,
they are interesting and provocative, and I sincerely wish
the poster
would further elucidate her/his ideas about female
supremacy, even if
she/he is having a little trouble communicating in perfect
English (we
all make mistakes from time to time).
Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!
Tony
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:41:58 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: get your information correct TONY
Message-ID: <32240656.7BE9@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
excuse me Tony..i don't know what your beef against me is
but.....I did
not write the statement: pretty arrogant shit....what is
your
problem....I did not deserve the first crap you gave
me...and I
certainly don't deserve this one....It was Laura who wrote
the
original..."> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a
whole damn
movement." If you would thoughtfully read your email
instead of blindly
thrashing about for something I might have done wrong..so
you can attack
me again...you would have known that.
You still have never apologized to me for the first one,
and you will
probably never apologize for this one either. You are
continually an
abuser...and this is the final straw.
I am asking you to get off of this list, or I will. You are
negative,
destructive and looking for a woman to abuse...I will not
let you have
at me twice. In the real world once would have thrown you
out on your
ass. But even in this world I do not deserve and will not
allow myself
to be a victim of your misplaced,ignorant, testosterone
driven, blind
wrath.
So Laura he's talking about what you said here, and I
assume you have
some feelings about his attack on you as well......
As to the continuation of these advertisements by X...this
is a
community of people first. Throwing wild advertisements
here is
inappropriate without first introducing yourself and having
some sense
of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a house
on a country
lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up
finding someone
has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while you
slept...almost
like an invasion.
Patricia
Tony wrote:
> >>
> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement...I assume
> there is
>
> Patricia:
>
> Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty
arrogant shit")
> constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the
spirit and the
> by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a
flame, in that (1)
> you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant"
without making a
> good-faith effort at understanding what her/his
motives and underlying
> messages were; (2) you added fuel to the rhetorical
fire by further
> labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically slapping
the poster in the
> face before you learned anything about her/his ideas.
(All in all,
> these sound like typically male "Neanderthal" tactics,
to me!) And to
> think that a few months ago, I was berated summarily
by many of the
> regular contributors to this group (including, I
believe, yourself) for
> using somewhat milder language in response to what I
still contend were
> pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or
unwitting.
>
> Also, how do you know that these posts from "xantippe"
are aimed at
> "femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they are
simply aimed at
> proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who have
nothing to do
> with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it on
the giving or
> receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly level
at these posts
> is that they are too brief and the English is not
perfect. Otherwise,
> they are interesting and provocative, and I sincerely
wish the poster
> would further elucidate her/his ideas about female
supremacy, even if
> she/he is having a little trouble communicating in
perfect English (we
> all make mistakes from time to time).
>
> Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!
>
> Tony
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
Message-Id:
<199608280711.AAA16821@davinci.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Non original-primary thinking will not lead to anything.
Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.
_Xantippe MOVEMENT_
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:58:26 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: get your information correct TONY
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I vote for Patricia to remain and Tony to leave.
Patricia, please do us a favor and just delete his postings
when you see
they've arrived.
peter
>
>
>excuse me Tony..i don't know what your beef against me
is but.....I did
>not write the statement: pretty arrogant shit....what
is your
>problem....I did not deserve the first crap you gave
me...and I
>certainly don't deserve this one....It was Laura who
wrote the
>original..."> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing
as a whole damn
>movement." If you would thoughtfully read your email
instead of blindly
>thrashing about for something I might have done
wrong..so you can attack
>me again...you would have known that.
>
>You still have never apologized to me for the first
one, and you will
>probably never apologize for this one either. You are
continually an
>abuser...and this is the final straw.
>I am asking you to get off of this list, or I will. You
are negative,
>destructive and looking for a woman to abuse...I will
not let you have
>at me twice. In the real world once would have thrown
you out on your
>ass. But even in this world I do not deserve and will
not allow myself
>to be a victim of your misplaced,ignorant, testosterone
driven, blind
>wrath.
>
>So Laura he's talking about what you said here, and I
assume you have
>some feelings about his attack on you as well......
>
>As to the continuation of these advertisements by
X...this is a
>community of people first. Throwing wild advertisements
here is
>inappropriate without first introducing yourself and
having some sense
>of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a
house on a country
>lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up
finding someone
>has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while
you slept...almost
>like an invasion.
>Patricia
>
>Tony wrote:
>
>> >>
>> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole
damn movement...I assume
>> there is
>>
>> Patricia:
>>
>> Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty
arrogant shit")
>> constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the
spirit and the
>> by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a
flame, in that (1)
>> you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant"
without making a
>> good-faith effort at understanding what her/his
motives and underlying
>> messages were; (2) you added fuel to the
rhetorical fire by further
>> labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically
slapping the poster in the
>> face before you learned anything about her/his
ideas. (All in all,
>> these sound like typically male "Neanderthal"
tactics, to me!) And to
>> think that a few months ago, I was berated
summarily by many of the
>> regular contributors to this group (including, I
believe, yourself) for
>> using somewhat milder language in response to what
I still contend were
>> pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or
unwitting.
>>
>> Also, how do you know that these posts from
"xantippe" are aimed at
>> "femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they
are simply aimed at
>> proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who
have nothing to do
>> with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it
on the giving or
>> receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly
level at these posts
>> is that they are too brief and the English is not
perfect. Otherwise,
>> they are interesting and provocative, and I
sincerely wish the poster
>> would further elucidate her/his ideas about female
supremacy, even if
>> she/he is having a little trouble communicating in
perfect English (we
>> all make mistakes from time to time).
>>
>> Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
___________________________________________________________________
>> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>> For a list and description of supported mailing
list commands, send
>> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with
the subject "help".
>
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:24:22 +0000
From: "Empusae"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Xantippe gets boofed up
Message-Id:
<199608281125.LAA170611@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
> To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
> Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> Non original-primary thinking will not lead to
anything. Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.
>
> _Xantippe MOVEMENT_
>From the looks of the postings, you certainly have
stirred up alot of
non-original primary thinking...like "I dont like you and
what you
say, so I am going to take my toys and go home.
Empusae
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:00:06 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-ID: <32245EF6.1CE2@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
and what the Hera does non-original primary thinking mean.
If it is not
original...it is a copy of something else. If it is primary
...like the
primary numbers it is unique onto itself and cannot be
divided by any
other number but itself...
so I guess we are being accused of not original, original
thinking....heavy....my mere female brain reels
is it related to snakes and original sin?
"The time has come,"
the Walrus said, "To talk of many things:
of shoes,
and ships,
and sealing wax,
of cabbages and kings,
and why the sea is boiling hot,
and whether pigs have wings."
from: Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Patricia
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:01:41 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: this one went wrong place too
Message-ID: <32245F55.6D0F@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
what is happening to this list. it is deteriorating
quickly.
if this person would have introduced themselves instead of
flooding my
mail box with some message for ladies and girls....
who is taking their toys and going home...my message to
tony had nothing
to do with the X stuff...if this is going to become the
femsupremacy
place ads for whatever you want list....it is not what I
joined for.
I joined to dialogue with intelligent women and men and not
be drowned
in ads from strangers.
Patricia
Empusae wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
> > To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> > From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
> > Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
> > Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
>
> > Non original-primary thinking will not lead to
anything. Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.
> >
> > _Xantippe MOVEMENT_
>
> >From the looks of the postings, you certainly have
stirred up alot of
> non-original primary thinking...like "I dont like you
and what you
> say, so I am going to take my toys and go home.
>
> Empusae
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:34:59 -0400
From: Oldlow@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Working for Her
Message-ID:
<960828083458_395871825@emout10.mail.aol.com>
The correspondence about working for her struck a deep
chord in my memory.
For some years I ran my own small consultancy to Computer
Graphics firms.
About eight years ago, I worked for one such which was
quite a substantial
competitor in the commercial typesetting business. The CEO
was a woman in her
forties named Martha. Gradually, she spent more and more
time with me. Our
relationship lasted about two years. In the beginning, our
awareness of the
unspoken nature of it excited us both, I think. There never
was an overt
sexual component, but I had a deeply satisfying time of it,
and, I like to
think she did, too.
Within months, I found myself accepting a vice-presidency
in her company, but
Martha also allowed me to assume the duties of a private
secretary. We flew
back and forth between Boston and one or another European
city about once a
month. Martha spoke no European languages. I do, so I think
I was as useful
arranging salon appointments as sales represeentative
meetings. I could tell
when she was tiring, and would usualy arrange a cancellable
appointment with
a beauty salon for late in the afternoon. She loved having
facials. So did I,
but I never infringed on my position by asking to join her
at the same salon.
Nevertheless, she recognized this and allowed me the time
for my own small
pleasures, sometimes sending me off for a massage or facial
she had already
paid for.
I did more and more for her. We shopped together. I hemmed
and made small
alterations to her new purchases in my hotel room at night.
I'm sure she realized quite soon that I wore women's
underwear as a matter of
habit, so, once when we were pressed for time in Hamburg, I
offered to wash
some of her necessaries along with my own. After that, it
was an unspoken
agreement. I took care of both our wardrobes, always going
to her room in the
evening when I knew she wasn't there to collect the wash
and to leave a
freshly-laundered and folded nightgown on her bed after I'd
turned it down. I
helped with makeup, with long conferences on dressing, and
with small details
of her person. More than once I gave her a pedicure of an
evening when there
had been no time for a salon and there was an early flight
in the morning. I
loved to see her glorying in her healthy womanhood. It made
deeply happy in
the certainty that I had contributed some small component
to her joy of life.
Martha was married, but her husband had another position.
He never travelled
with her. Martha was by nature a dominant woman. I adored
her and wondered
occasionally about her marriage. Perhaps it was not unlike
her relationship
with me which based on unspoken acceptance of feminine
dominance and
masculine submission.
During that time, the unacknowleged relationship we were
enjoying gave me the
greatest delight. I think my actual work for the company
was of a better
quality than I regularly could achieve because my
relationship with Martha
was so deeply fulfilling. This suggests to me that as women
become ever more
senior in business, as the glass ceiling shatters, there
will be many men who
have the opportunity to find an important component of
themselves and their
masculinity through submisive-dominant relationships with
women at work, and
Isn't that an optimistic notion to treasure in these grey
times?
Thank you for the chance to share this, and to recall that
happy episode in
my life!
Malcolm
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Message-Id: <199608281348.GAA22589@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Coyote Sings wrote:
> 'Twas I who wrote to the Xantippe 'movement' and
invited 'them' to join us
> here and on alt.women.supremacy. When I did this, I
had all the Usenet
> information noted by Lawless and had in mind all the
usual reservations
> expressed here today and some of my own as well: it's
the cops, it's a
> 19-year-old guy in a turned around baseball cap eating
chocolate-chip
> cookies, it's a 52-old-guy (which makes him almost
=my= age, Heaven
> forfend), it's the Religious Reich, etc. It even
occurred to me that
> _mirabile dictu_ they could be who they say they are!
>
> Usually when I privately write to people to tell them
about this List, I
> make sure to say something like, 'as long as you don't
flame and treat
> everyone with respect it's a _safe place_.' It has
always been a safe
> place for me with my _really_ nutty Dead White Male
ideas and less than
> Ladylike attitude, for which I am grateful to all of
you: can't it also
> be that way for someone whose only real difficulty
seems to be a less
> than perfect command of English and a slight
cluelessness about the good
> work that has been done before, on & off the Net?
Feh. Coyote, I hadda a feeling someone told him about the
list, but....
You actually read all Xantippe's Girlie ads (I won't call
them posts) on
asfd an' invited him here, apparently without even thinking
to suggest
that he/she/it/them lurk a while and -not- make the kinds
of posts he did
on Usenet? I guess I'm not really surprised.... Not at all
in a bad
kinda way, mind you - more a matter of you being -too-
nice. ;)
> Forgive me all this effrontery from a sincere if
bratty little brother,
> but I find this reception of Xantippe something less
than Sisterly.
Less than Sisterly? I disagree - even sisters get a little
peeved when
they start getting flooded with sloppy little notes
basically asking
them to give their names, (email) addresses, and personal
information to
someone who doesn't know them, doesn't bother to introduce
themselves,
and addresses them in what feels like a patronizing kind of
way.
> Besides, I'd like to hear a _lot_ more about their
idea of networked
> small FS communities, because, like it or not, the
time of tribalism is
> upon us, folks. Chou-En-Lai said, "Let a hundred
flowers bloom."
*blink* Wasn't aware we'd heard -any- of his/their ideas -
just someone
asking GIRLs and LADYs to contact him, and that
males(submales) shouldn't
unless planning to offer financial support for what seems
an awful lot
like personal fetishistic fantasies.
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
-- In your head, no car is fast enough,
-- In your heart, no love is true.
-- Will it ruin all your solitary fancies
-- If I tell you that it isn't only you? -- Emma Bull
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:56:00 +0000
From: "The Night-Hag"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-Id:
<199608281357.NAA121922@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:00:06 -0700
> From: Patricia
> Organization: MAINartery
> To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> Subject: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> and what the Hera does non-original primary thinking
mean. If it is not
> original...it is a copy of something else. If it is
primary ...like the
> primary numbers it is unique onto itself and cannot be
divided by any
> other number but itself...
> so I guess we are being accused of not original,
original
> thinking....heavy....my mere female brain reels
> is it related to snakes and original sin?
>
I am not sure what you are trying to imply about my email
address?
You have sent mulitple copies of this post in private email
to me.
I have one of THOSE addresses? It is a simple address so
that even
simple people can write to it. Empusae@ibm.net
Implying it is one of _ THOSE addresses_ might give someone
the impression
I am from AOL.
Empusae...The Night-Hag
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:13:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: imagery@biddeford.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: this one went wrong place too
Message-Id:
<199608281413.KAA02349@mail.biddeford.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:01 AM 8/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>what is happening to this list. it is deteriorating
quickly.
>if this person would have introduced themselves instead
of flooding my
>mail box with some message for ladies and girls....
>who is taking their toys and going home...my message to
tony had nothing
>to do with the X stuff...if this is going to become the
femsupremacy
>place ads for whatever you want list....it is not what
I joined for.
>
>I joined to dialogue with intelligent women and men and
not be drowned
>in ads from strangers.
>Patricia
I am wondering if I am missing some of the posts from here,
I haven't
been flooded with ads. I do agree with you; I look forward
to intelligent
conversation too.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: get your information correct TONY
Message-Id: <199608281424.HAA25127@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Great - on one hand we've got Tony once again demonstrating
an inability
to read clearly when it gives him an opportunity to be
catty and get
back at someone he has a grudge against, on the other, a
good member of
the list laying down "Either you go or I go" ultimatums.
Sorry, Patricia - while I do understand where you're coming
from, in not
wanting to read this list if you're going to have to wade
through posts
like Tony's and Xantippe's, I do think it's going
overboard, if not out
of line, to make such statements. I'd -much- rather see the
two of them
leave then you, or Laura Goodwin, or Coyote -- but so
long's its just one
or two such people that offend, you can always delete their
posts without
reading. And then wait for social Darwinism to either
induce them to
evolve, or to find an environmental niche more compatible
with them.
Patricia concluded:
> As to the continuation of these advertisements by
X...this is a
> community of people first. Throwing wild
advertisements here is
> inappropriate without first introducing yourself and
having some sense
> of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a
house on a country
> lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up
finding someone
> has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while
you slept...almost
> like an invasion.
Exactly - it feels like sleazy advertisements showing up in
your kitchen,
or in your Reader's Digest or what not.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-Id: <199608281428.HAA25509@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The Night Hag wrote:
> I am not sure what you are trying to imply about my
email address?
> You have sent mulitple copies of this post in private
email to me.
> I have one of THOSE addresses? It is a simple address
so that even
> simple people can write to it. Empusae@ibm.net
> Implying it is one of _ THOSE addresses_ might give
someone the
> impression I am from AOL.
She's not implying anything - she's pointing out the fact
that you've
one of those 'Reply-To:' lines that make people's automatic
replies go
to you instead of the list. *That* is why you get multiple
copies -
because they send it to you personally, notice, and resend
to the list.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #192
************************************************
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------------------------------
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 194
Today's Topics:
Re: When Malcolm Worked For Her
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Submissive pushing dominant.
Discarding Women
Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Sandbox play can get pretty gritty
Is it Always Like This?
FS exciting in action
Re: Stretching Limits:
Re: Is it Always Like This?
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Change of topic
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
books
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: When Malcolm Worked For Her
Message-Id: <199608290242.TAA03641@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Paul/maidpaula wrote:
> Malcolm- No, thank *you* for relating your experience.
Your views on
> female supremacy are enlightening and a pleasure to
read.
>
> It sounds like it was a special and successful
relationship for you both,
> albeit "unacknowledged". It will be interesting to see
how
> employer-employee relations evolve over time as women
achieve greater power
> in the business world. I imagine they will change for
the better, but I
> also have a small fear that power is just plain
corruptable to many,
> regardless of gender. I hope my fear is unfounded,
only time will tell of
> course.
I agree - Malcolm's post was pleasant reading; not to
mention something I
can relate to. I often do ver' good work, mostly when I'm
keyed up over
something interesting or exciting that I'm doing. But, I
consistently do
decent work at minimum when I've had a woman boss or
coworker whom I liked
and respected - in essence, I did better because I'd be
viewing it as doing
better for her. Given that I generally strive for a modicum
of profession-
ality, they'd never know -why- I did better, but.... ;)
So far as the fear about power and corruptability, well....
Definately,
both genders are susceptable to being corrupted. But -
power corrupts
most those who seek it for its own sake. And in general,
I've found
that women tend to acquire or seek power secondarily,
almost as a side
effect. They do good work - so they get promoted to
management, super-
visory, or executive positions, despite a system often
unfavorable to
them. Or they seek power - but because they need it for a
reason, be it
to correct problems with school systems, or economic
issues, or whatnot.
Those types, female or male, are less likely to be
corrupted, or at least
to a lesser extent. An' given that I find them more often
on the Goddess'
side of the gender line, I think things may well change for
the better as
women continue to gain equal influence, and then more. :)
Regards,
Chase / Lawless
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:53:34 -0500
From: Roland Foy
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <3225062E.1125@pclink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Good call Dee Ann. You have protected this group from
what was little more than a cyber-stalker (and an
inarticulate one at that).
Roland
Why did god(dess) create men first? You always start with
the
proto-type, filled with bugs and imperfections. She did
how-
ever create a rather nice finished product on the second
try!
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:55:44 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Submissive pushing dominant.
Message-ID: <32269070.B31@crosslink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Laura wrote:
> I have been pushed a lot more than I have been
> persuaded, and persuasion is better. The problem
arises when you have a
> dominant who is not into what you are into.
The trouble with most of us men is, we subtly try to
manipulate our
wives and girlfriends into doing what turns us on, and we
are not shy
about using manipulative, phony tricks to get what we want.
It's bogus,
and wrong. Until we learn to stop being manipulative, and
truly
submissive and quite, listening and obeying, we will never
achieve true
spiritual calmness and bliss. To be truly submissive to a
woman,
without trying to control, manipulate or get off, is an
incredibly
wonderful experience. When you get to the point where you
obey in
total, even only reaching shangrela at her command, you go
into another
dimension that you can't reach by playing the shallow power
and get off
games so popular among us men. The deeper sensuality
achieved by being
totally consumed with a devotion to another, and to me that
means one
special person with whom you share that bond exclusively,
is deeply
spiritual and sexual, and absolutely guilt free. Guilt free
sex is not
an oxymoron. Some like it better that way of course! OK, if
you must,
fantasize if you need that bad boy feeling. It's not really
necessary,
but different strokes for different folks.(man, can you
have fun with
that one) Bliss? Oh yeah.
Ecstasy? Oh yeah. Calm, yet excited, submissive yet
exhilarated, and
strong yet totally weak and enraptured. Sounds like love to
me!
Peace and bliss to you my friends,
(For David: the bible, the bible, the bible,
thump thump thump...................NOT!!!)
Love and kisses,
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 00:17:01 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: Patricia Noble
Subject: Discarding Women
Message-ID: <3226956D.51C2@crosslink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Patricia wrote:
> what happens to your pure Amazon athelete..when
gravity sets
> in...discard her for newer, tighter model...(that
sounds familiar), what
> happens when your female athelete gets breast cancer
and has to have one
> or both removed to save her life.
Patricia, you always get right down to the core issue don't
you. Love
means a person is worthwhile no matter what their sexual
value may be.
You are sometimes confrontational and abrasive, but you are
always
passionate, sincere, and usually right. I vote for the
older, looser,
breast less model, the overweight, less desirable according
to the
Madison Avenue, thin adoring society we live in. It's
what's on the
inside that counts, as you already know. If a man leaves
his lady
because she is sick or disfigured, or getting old, or fat
or in any way
less than the ideal, he is one shallow, foolish looser who
doesn't
deserve the love of a loyal devoted woman. He can go off in
search of a
bimbo to use, and they deserve each other. People are
people, she isn't
a rock, a playground, a sex machine, Santa clause, a
vending machine to
get out of whatever we WANT, SHE IS A PERSON, WORTHY OF
RESPECT AND
LOYALTY.
You are a courageous woman, who always says what she
believes, and
dares to be open and vulnerable, and I salute you for that.
Your all
right my friend.
Spirit Wind
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:48:16 +0200
From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id:
<199608291148.EAA20975@davinci.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a
chainreaction which is deteriorating this list.Do you all
let this happen because we (xantippe) failed (as we did) to
introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere can
not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking
that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling
invaded by a * xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy
be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a urge need for
attention? Just get rid of your old grudges and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their
own*maidentrip imperfections*.
Xantippe Movement.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:04:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id: <199608291304.IAA27746@wpg-01.escape.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well here's another victim statement from old Xantippe. I
know where MY
delete key is.
I was wondering about that word, Xantippe. Is
it Greek for drivel?
>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a
chainreaction which is
deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because
we (xantippe)
failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in
time? We overhere
can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by
thinking that Xantippe
initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a *
xantippe text* on
the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking?
might be out of a
urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges
and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their
own*maidentrip imperfections*.
>
>Xantippe Movement.
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
>
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:42:40 -0500
From: STALEY
To: "'femsupremacy@renaissoft.com'"
Subject: RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID:
<01BB9586.136BAA80@modem03.cadvantage.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_01BB9586.136BAA80"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9586.136BAA80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
please unsubscribe us after all this is not femsupremacy
but =
childsupremacy your system finds us to send the
childishness let your =
system find us to unsubscribe us
THANK YOU!!!!!! =20
----------
From: David Land[SMTP:rrlelnd@escape.ca]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 1996 3:04 AM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Well here's another victim statement from old Xantippe. I
know where MY
delete key is.
I was wondering about that word, Xantippe. Is
it Greek for drivel?
>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a
chainreaction which is
deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because
we (xantippe)
failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in
time? We =
overhere
can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by
thinking that =
Xantippe
initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a *
xantippe text* =
on
the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking?
might be out of a
urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges
and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their
own*maidentrip =
imperfections*.
>
>Xantippe Movement.
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
>
the subject "help".
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:45:50 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID:
FE>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated
a chainreaction which is deteriorat
FE>Xantippe Movement.
Well, I'd say that if your first posts were inoccuous,
even interesting, I'd say *this* one is pretty pompous
and arrogant!
Thank you, I am no longer interested.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:56:30 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID: <3225CBBE.557C@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
please wordwrap
patricia
xantippe wrote:
>
> Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a
chainreaction which is deteriorating this list.Do you all
let this happen because we (xantippe) failed (as we did) to
introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere can
not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking
that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling
invaded by a * xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy
be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a urge need for
attention? Just get rid of your old grudges an
>
> Xantippe Movement.
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:08:09 +0000
From: "The Night-Hag"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sandbox play can get pretty gritty
Message-Id:
<199608291613.QAA87235@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> From: STALEY
> To: "'femsupremacy@renaissoft.com'"
> Subject: RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:42:40 -0500
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> please unsubscribe us after all this is not
femsupremacy but childsupremacy your system finds us to
send the childishness let your system find us to
unsubscribe us
> THANK YOU!!!!!!
>
Buttons, buttons....PUSH!!!
I have to agree, with watching all the "pushing and
shoving" going on,
I am beginning to wonder about the validity of the above
statement.
I'm reminded of a child's game, called " Buttons,buttons,
who's got the
buttons"..and once you find out..you *push* it.
It takes much more wisdom, maturity, and control to respond
to
someone than it does to react to them. Children, because
they are
immature, react. However, those who are hoping to reign
Supreme
need to learn to take the time to think through what they
are saying
and use their wisdom to find an appropriate response.
The Night-Hag
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: 29 Aug 96 14:25:03 EDT
From: Marissa <103267.1522@CompuServe.COM>
To: Femsupremacy
Subject: Is it Always Like This?
Message-ID:
<960829182503_103267.1522_IHH87-1@CompuServe.COM>
Gee, an action packed week here on the list. Is it always
like this?
Marissa
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: FS exciting in action
Message-Id:
<199608291840.LAA23165@cyprus.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:03 PM 8/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Tony, it's becoming obvious that you're going to pull
an adolescent
>stunt every chance you get. I'm removing and banning
you from this
>list.
>
>Dee-Ann
>
----------
Gosh, that was exciting. Female supremacy in action: Women
making wise
decisions to make all our lives better. Women making their
world the way
they want it. More power to you.
zbobz
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Stretching Limits:
Message-Id:
<199608291840.LAA23155@cyprus.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kalika,
Thank you for sharing your lovely thoughts. Very nicely
said ... very
nicely conceived. What you say has the feel of deep
personal truth.
> ... in a Femsprem "environment", it is *always* the
wishes of the Goddess
that are to >be met... fullfilled.
>IMHO, males need to learn patience ... focus on the
wishes of the Goddess,
... to >remain quiet ... to observe and learn ... to
accept deference to Her
as a natural >occurance.
>In so doing, he will grow both in his ability to please
Her, and also his
>opportunity to experience the joy ... it is, really, a
natural thing.
zbobz
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:04:36 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Is it Always Like This?
Message-ID: <3225E9C4.30FA@nwlink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marissa--
Sometimes it's very busy and sometimes it is not. It just
depends.
I enjoy it when it's busy because so much is being
discussed and so
much is going on. I also enjoy it when it's not so busy
because then
I can respond to more email from the list in an indepth
manner.
I have been on the list for about 4-5 months now (I
think--sometimes
it feels longer because I've learned so much here and met
so many
great people) and there is rarely a dull moment. You've
been lurking
so you kind of know what's happening, but the longer you're
on the list,
the more you learn.
Jet
>
> Gee, an action packed week here on the list. Is it
always like this?
>
> Marissa
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id:
<199608292016.NAA01034@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1108
xantippe wrote:
>
> Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a
chainreaction which is deteriorating this list.Do you all
let this happen because we (xantippe) failed (as we did) to
introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere can
not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking
that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling
invaded by a * xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy
be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a urge need for
attention? Just get rid of your old grudges and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their
own*maidentrip imperfections*.
You will quickly learn that going into any online forum and
simply
starting to post ads is fairly ineffective and tends to
upset people.
Please don't now try to start fights here by throwing
around
accusations.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id:
<199608292020.NAA01053@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 525
David Land wrote:
>
> Well here's another victim statement from old
Xantippe. I know where MY
> delete key is.
> I was wondering about that word, Xantippe. Is
> it Greek for drivel?
Let's quit all of the sniping back and forth, shall we?
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: feydancer@earthlink.net (Phoenix)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Change of topic
Message-Id:
<199608292227.PAA06896@iberia.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
De-lurking again...
After several weeks of aggravation, my new PC is running
smoothly and
connected to the net again. I now know more than I ever
wanted to about
Windows '95! Anyway, I thought I'd toss out a few things...
Just finished re-reading Adjit Mookerjee's _Kali, The
Feminine Force_. It's
a richly illustrated and well-written book. I think anyone
interested in
femsupremacy would find it interesting. (Those who follow
Goddess paths may
find it downright inspirational!)
A tidbit from the book... "There is no jewel rarer than
woman, no condition
superior to that of a woman. There is not, nor has been,
nor will be any
destiny to equal that of a woman..." (from the Saktisangama
Tantra)
I also wondered if anyone has read _The Gate to Women's
Country_ by Sherri
S. Tepper? (science fiction) The most interesting concept
in the book is
gradually uncovered in the story, so I won't relate it
here. But I will
describe the predominate social structure. In a
post-nuclear-holocost world
a society has been organized in which there are a series of
towns
(Marthatown, Peggytown, etc). Each town has a garrison
attached to it filled
with (male) warriors. All the women (and men known as
"Servitors") live
within the walled towns. The women are well-educated and do
all the work of
maintaining the society (farming, fishing, trading, etc.).
Warriors, of
course, fight. Tepper is a wonderful author and the story
is an entertaining
read which also explores the relationship between the sexes
and a possible
ending of patriarchy.
--Lady Phoenix
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:03:59 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I suggest people treat this the same way I deal with a
mosquito bite. Try
to ignore the discomfort for a couple of days and it will
go away.
peter>
>
>
>xantippe wrote:
>>
>> Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o.
generated a chainreaction which is
>>deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen
because we (xantippe)
>>failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly
and in time? We
>>overhere can not believe that.Are you not cheating
yourself by thinking
>>that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction?
Feeling invaded by a *
>>xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy be
deleted..are you faking?
>>might be out of a urge need for attention? Just get
rid of your old
>>grudges and don't kick newcomers before they are
even aware of their
>>own*maidentrip imperfections*.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:41:42 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: books
Message-ID: <322662F6.6F46@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
has anyone else read "Woman at the edge of Time." by Mary
Daly...it is
fiction...that's more than fiction.
Patricia
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #194
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 188
Today's Topics:
Re: child abuse fantasy?
Re: Domination in the Grief process
Re: child abuse fantasy?
child abuse fantasy?
Re: child abuse fantasy?
Nice change of pace...thanks
Re: child abuse fantasy?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: child abuse fantasy?
Message-Id: <199608201450.HAA22608@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Christine & David wrote:
> I bring to your attention a matter which disturbs me
greatly.
>
> I recently received a letter which contained what
purports to
> be the true story of a Lady named b******. It was
apparent that
> this story had been posted to Alt Sex Bondage back in
1994.
>
> Was it a cry for help, and if so what should I do
about it?
>
> Is it just fantasy, and if so should I do more than I
have done?
>
> The story tells the life of a girl sexually abused
from the age
> of three by her legal guardian in Europe. Handed on to
others
> to act in service and eventually ending up in
apparently joyful
> slavery in America.
Well now.... I've known the person pretty well online for a
couple of
years, I know her current owners, again online, have seen
them interact,
and have a few very good personal friends who know them in
person, an' I
know the particular posting of hers which you refer to. I'm
kinda curious
as to how / why she sent it to you, but.... It's not a cry
for help,
being as she's -quite- happy with her current situation,
and it's not a
fantasy story. It's an explanation of who she is, what she
is, so's people
can understand where she's coming from.
> I give you my reply to the sender below.
I give you my response to your reply.
---- response :
> The story, whether fantasy or not, appears to justify
child
> abuse, by the apparent happy ending of your life in
slavery. If
> it is a true story, you would be doing the world a
favour if you
> re-wrote it to remove the 'happy ending'. If it is
true you are
> breaking no laws that I know of by circulating it.
If it's true, and she rewrites it so's not to bruise your
sensibilities,
then it's no longer true, it's no longer a good explanation
of her life.
Perhaps history books and biographies should be rewritten
to remove all
reference to things that may disturb people? People don't
have a divine
mandate to do the world a favour, especially when and if it
means denying
who and what they are.
> If it is a fantasy, I think you should remove all
references to
> the period before your induction in France. The child
abuse
> sections are most disturbing, and prompted me to
consider many
> and various ways of rescuing you from a life which is
built upon
> absence of consent.
>
> If it is
> fantasy then you run the risk of criminal action being
taken
> against you.
Blood an' bone, -if- it's a fantasy then the author has a
right to
express what is, after all, her fantasy. If it disturbs
you, then don't
read it. Reading ASB, ASFD, and even some -good- BDSM
fiction such as
Pat Califia can give almost anyone glimpses of things that
a number of
people are going to find unpleasant, unenjoyable, and even
down right
offensive or disturbing. Personally, I feel quite a bit of
distaste at
most of the forced feminization, castration, degradation
type of femdom
'fiction' out there - but I don't try and tell the other
people they
should change their writing so's it isn't noncon fantasy
material.
So far as criminal action, if it's fantasy?
I'm not sure where
> you get the notion that such is any more criminal than
anything else on
> the internet, under the communications decency act the
US was stupid
> enough to pass.
Things don't have to be criminal to make them more likely
to be
actionable. I've been there. Visited by police for running
an
'hotel' that the media reported as Portugal's only SM
hotel.
Invited to accompany them to the station to make a
statement
regarding whether we were putting on illegal 'shows'.
I suggested risk of criminal action. By that I mean action
being taken by the forces of law and order in a process of
criminal jurisdiction. Not definite criminal offence and
eventual conviction.
Take a look around at the baying wolves in Europe at the
moment.
Anything that smacks of child porn runs the risk of
criminal
action. (Anything that smacks of sex on the Internet will
once
again come under hysterical scrutiny).
>
> > If it is a true story, then it is very sad
indeed. It is my
> > opinion that you should only continue in a life
of slavery, once
> > having established that you have the power to
choose.
> >
> > If true I believe you should seek help in
establishing a
> > genuinely free and independent lifestyle. If you
then find you
> > wish to consent to periods of experimental
slavery, you would be
> > freely choosing to do so.
>
> People go round and round on this on ASB, and
elsewhere - why should
> someone -have- to only do "periods of experimental"
submission / slavery,
> if they want TPE (Total Power Exchange) or 'real'
slavery? The person in
> question is very happy in the relationship and
lifestyle she has, quite
> possibly would -not- be happy if she sought 'help'.
I have a right to my beliefs on this one. It is stated as
my
opinion in response to a bio she sent me. I think that
anyone
coming from a background such as the one this lady is from
should seriously question whether she wishes to continue in
'real slavery'. The story as posted does not suggest such
questioning ever took place. Of course I realise now from
your
defence of the people involved, that such questioning may
well
have taken place.
>
> > If fantasy, then you should consider very
seriously whether you
> > wish to disturb people, and justify the
impression so common in
> > the media that bdsm is about child abuse and lack
of consent. At
> > the very least the story should be headed up as
fantasy.
>
> So, we should only write BDSM light, no severe pain,
no brandings,
> nothing that the media and the vanilla population
might find shocking
> or 'sick'?
I don't deserve that! Your words, not mine.
I merely suggested that if it is fantasy it would be better
to
head it up as such. Were it fantasy, then presenting it as
truth with stories of enforced sex upon a three year old
child
would be wrongfully disturbing. Were such a story headed up
as
"fantasy, three year old girl used sexually by adults",
I would avoid it.
> Just a little bondage, tickling maybe, or spanking,
but
> no crops, no canes, no strapon harnesses and whatnot?
Eh, I don't think
> so - that's censorship, and in any case, who's writing
BDSM fiction /
> fantasy material for the media or vanilla types?
It is not censorship to head up fantasy material with a
description of what it is. In my opinion non-consensual
fantasy
should be described as such whenever there is a likelihood
of
doubt.
>
> ------ End of specific commentary
>
> Despite all that I said on the specifics of what you
sent my friend, I
> myself was somewhat disturbed by things in her past -
but they are her
> past, unalterable. If I knew the person who sold her
into servitude,
> and who'd sexually molested her even before that, I'd
be inclined to
> display extreme violence -- I'm not at all happy that
such a thing hap-
> pened. I don't think many of the people she gives her
background to
> are going to react well to it - proof, in my eyes,
that she isn't at all
> 'justifying' child abuse and whatnot.
>
> The key thing is, she's happy - she has owners who
care for her very
> much, and are proud of her. If someone were to get the
authorities to
> intervene, she'd be very much -unhappy-. She doesn't
want independence,
> she doesn't want freedom -- but neither is she without
a sense of herself.
> She sticks up for herself, and she only submits to
those whom her owners
> tell her to. Isn't the life for me, and obviously not
for you - but then,
> it doesn't need to be.
But. If that piece gets distributed wildly with the current
climate of FBI net watching, (witness events on aol in
recent
times), then her comfortable life may well be disturbed by
someone who does not ask questions first.
I still think it might be wiser to distribute it in some
other
form, or in some other media.
sincerely,
David.
http://www.nixnet.com/MsChristine
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:08:48 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: child abuse fantasy?
Message-ID:
FE>Dear b******,
FE>Thank you for the ***, which I noticed is getting on
for two
FE>years old, perhaps longer as the date only refers to
when posted
FE>to ASB, not when written.
FE>If it is a fantasy, I think you should remove all
references to
FE>the period before your induction in France. The child
abuse
FE>sections are most disturbing, and prompted me to
consider many
FE>and various ways of rescuing you from a life which is
built upon
FE>absence of consent.
FE>The story, whether fantasy or not, appears to justify
child
FE>abuse, by the apparent happy ending of your life in
slavery. If
FE>it is a true story, you would be doing the world a
favour if you
FE>re-wrote it to remove the 'happy ending'. If it is
true you are
FE>breaking no laws that I know of by circulating it. If
it is
FE>fantasy then you run the risk of criminal action
being taken
FE>against you.
David, these things do happen, and while they
are reprehensible and unconscionable, the victims
frequently fixate on the event(s) as their sexuality
develops--often quite happily.
FE>If fantasy, then you should consider very seriously
whether you
FE>wish to disturb people, and justify the impression so
common in
FE>the media that bdsm is about child abuse and lack of
consent. At
FE>the very least the story should be headed up as
fantasy.
I am vehemently opposed to censorship of any sort.
While I rarely disagree with what you write, this time
I must.
Best regards,
Barbara
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:12:56 -0500
From: Roland Foy
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: child abuse fantasy?
Message-ID: <321BDE48.5D5A@pclink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am saddened by this thread. Too deep for me. Not knowing
the
players or the history I'm left with a hollow feeling. May
the
following remind us of childhood's progeny:
When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked
on the moon,
he not only gave his famous "One Small Step for Man, One
Giant Leap for
Mankind" statement, but followed it by several remarks -
usual com
traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission
Control. Before
he re-entered the lander, he made the enigmatic remark
"Good luck, Mr.
Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark
concerning
some rival Soviet Cosmonaut; however, upon checking, there
was no Gorsky
in either the Russian nor American space programs.
Over the years, many people have questioned him as to what
the "Good
luck, Mr. Gorsky" statement meant. On July 5, in Tampa Bay,
FL, while
answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought
up the 26
year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded. It
seems that
Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could answer
the
question. When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball with
his
brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball which
landed in
front of his neighbors' bedroom window. The neighbors were
Mr and
Mrs. Gorksy. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, he
heard Mrs.
Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky, "Oral sex? Oral sex you
want? You'll
get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!"
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:39:21 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Nice change of pace...thanks
Message-ID: <321BE479.7B9E@nwlink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Roland--
This story was so sweet and funny. Thank you for bringing a
bit of joy
to us. There are many bad things in this world, but there
are also many
good things. We cannot always focus on the bad or the good,
but it's
nice when it's one extreme or the other, to remind us that
it is not ALL
this way.
Jet
> When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first
walked on the moon,
> he not only gave his famous "One Small Step for Man,
One Giant Leap for
> Mankind" statement, but followed it by several remarks
- usual com
> traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission
Control. Before
> he re-entered the lander, he made the enigmatic remark
"Good luck, Mr.
> Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual
remark concerning
> some rival Soviet Cosmonaut; however, upon checking,
there was no Gorsky
> in either the Russian nor American space programs.
> Over the years, many people have questioned him as to
what the "Good
> luck, Mr. Gorsky" statement meant. On July 5, in Tampa
Bay, FL, while
> answering questions following a speech, a reporter
brought up the 26
> year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded.
It seems that
> Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could
answer the
> question. When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball
with his
> brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball
which landed in
> front of his neighbors' bedroom window. The neighbors
were Mr and
> Mrs. Gorksy. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, he
heard Mrs.
> Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky, "Oral sex? Oral sex you
want? You'll
> get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the
moon!"
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:59:16 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (Peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: child abuse fantasy?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I heard a version of this that says Neil Armstrong was
misquoted when he
first walked on the moon. He actually said "This is one
small step for man,
one giant leap for Sam Fine."
Why, you ask?
About a week before his mission, Armstrong was in a hotel
that had thin
walls. He heard a woman and man arguing. He pressed his
head to the wall
and heard the woman say: "Sam Fine! The day a man walks on
the moon is the
day I give you a blowjob!"
>
Peter>
>
>
>I am saddened by this thread. Too deep for me. Not
knowing the
>players or the history I'm left with a hollow feeling.
May the
>following remind us of childhood's progeny:
>
>When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first
walked on the moon,
>he not only gave his famous "One Small Step for Man,
One Giant Leap for
>Mankind" statement, but followed it by several remarks
- usual com
>traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission
Control. Before
>he re-entered the lander, he made the enigmatic remark
"Good luck, Mr.
>Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual
remark concerning
>some rival Soviet Cosmonaut; however, upon checking,
there was no Gorsky
>in either the Russian nor American space programs.
>Over the years, many people have questioned him as to
what the "Good
>luck, Mr. Gorsky" statement meant. On July 5, in Tampa
Bay, FL, while
>answering questions following a speech, a reporter
brought up the 26
>year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded.
It seems that
>Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could
answer the
>question. When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball
with his
>brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball
which landed in
>front of his neighbors' bedroom window. The neighbors
were Mr and
>Mrs. Gorksy. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, he
heard Mrs.
>Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky, "Oral sex? Oral sex you
want? You'll
>get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!"
>
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #188
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At 11:20 PM 9/10/96 -0400, Micah L. Martin wrote:
>On 10 Sep 1996, Jon Woolven wrote:
>
>> P.S. to micah-l-martin
>
>> Please stop accusing other people of
misrepresenting your argument whilst
>> blantantly doing so to theirs. It is very
irritating.
>
>There's little point in issuing such a complain unless
you tell me
>
>a) Where I accused other people of misrepresenting my
argument, and
>
>b) Where I blatantly did that very thing with someone
else's argument.
There is zero point value in these life-sapping point by
point analyses of
"opinions".
We are not arguing mathematical principles here. We are
reporting from our
own hearts about what we think and feel, and the combative
stance you've
adopted is not conducive to the conversation we were trying
to have. Now
cut that shit out. It's starting to look like a disruptive
tactic, and we
are wise to such tricks, OK?
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon 6:10)
the subject "help".
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:44:50 -0400
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com,
femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: Laura Goodwin
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
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>yes, men ought to start...all of them..getting down on
their hands and
knees and begging the female >principle nature..to
forgive them for what
they and there gender have done and to begin to work....to
try to >heal,
lick, kiss her wounds and make them all better.....
>Patricia
Absolutely! I know men will be expecting women to clean up
their mess for
them as usual, but they are going to have to take on their
share of it,
which at first will be most of it. You can see the tide is
turning, because
men worldwide, more and more, are requiring each other to
show respect to
women and the earth. Women are using their influence to
change the rules of
the game and the way it's played, even in areas where they
are still
enslaved.
*My Fantasy* What if all the men who are incompetant or
evil were replaced
by women who are competant and decent? The guys who are
competant and
decent could stay where they are, the women who merit it
would be able to
use their talents, and the only people who suffered would
be the ones who
deserve to!
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon 6:10)
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 16:54:48 1996
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From: pgm@servtech.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:55:33 -0400 (EDT)
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To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Re Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
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At 10:31 PM 9/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: New User * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] --
>
>Goodwin's point is the interesting one though. Men have
certainly done their
>best to keep women down. And men are still freaky about
female athletes,
>females competing with males directly in team sports,
females in the
>workplace, etc. etc.
Briefly speaking out loud, some men don't get freaked out
by female
athletes. The recent Olympic Games in Atlanta is a case in
point. The
women's basketball team was much more exciting and more
enjoyable to watch
than the men's basketball team. The men came off as
arrogant and
egotistical, while the women carried themselves with grace
and an
understated determination. And the women's team drew over
30,000 people to
their games :)
Regards, Paul
the subject "help".
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Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 08:38:38 -0500
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: A Wonderful Name?]
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Marissa:
I'm the peter who began this thread and not the one to whom
you responded
with your message.
You're right, this has gone on a bit too much and perhaps
it's time to
stop. If Patricia prefers to refer to me at tricky, that's
fine. If
Starbound wishes to refer to me as peter pan or krivy,
that's okay. And
Lady Jet can refer to me any way she wishes.
And you're right that my male ego/libido was stroked. What
man wouldn't
like the attention of three women?
My only concern, Marissa, is you. It's unfortunate you
don't have the
patience to realize that this would soon end. And more
important, you don't
have the sense of humor and understanding to see that this
was just
light-hearted banter.
For what it's worth, I've chosen to keep signing my
postings as peter.
That's what I've always intended to do. What the other
peter does is
entirely up to him. I'm sorry all of this has offended you.
I think it's best we go on to other more important, serious
matters, so,
I'll post another query:
Is stroking the male ego/libido allowed in female
supremacy?
>
peter>
>
>peter wrote:
>
>>>You are right, Patricia. Men like me should
know our place - I'm a
>slut who'll lick the ass of any woman who wishes it!
>
>peter<<
>
>While I believe wholeheartedly in each person's right
to expression of ideas, I
>have counted no less than 20 messages on the topic of
what to call this person.
>Additionally, his responses are designed to elicit some
self-pleasing,
>self-serving FD feedback for himself.
>
>I thought this list was designed to provide a forum
where FS could be discussed
>in a serious, thoughtful environment. Instead, comments
like the above from
>peter do nothing except stroke the male ego/libido.
Let's move on!
>
>Marissa
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
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Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 08:47:43 -0700
From: Patricia
Organization: tiac.net
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Good grief, if there is no room in femsupremacy for light
hearted
banter, silliness or even nonsense.....maybe I should be
working for
hyena supremacy or something..at least they appear to
laugh.
Patricia
the subject "help".
From - Sun Sep 8 17:15:37 1996
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From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
Message-Id:
<199609071840.LAA02031@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: A Wonderful Name?]
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 11:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To:
<199609071815.OAA28997@mail.biddeford.com> from
"imagery@biddeford.com" at Sep 7, 96 02:15:33 pm
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imagery@biddeford.com wrote:
>
> At 08:47 AM 9/7/96 -0700, you wrote:
> >Good grief, if there is no room in femsupremacy
for light hearted
> >banter, silliness or even nonsense.....maybe I
should be working for
> >hyena supremacy or something..at least they appear
to laugh.
> >
> >Patricia
> >
> I think there is lots of room for banter, silliness,
nonsense,humor
> and anything else which makes us laugh and feel light
hearted.
> However when the posts become excessive, perhaps some
of the banter
> would have been better put into private
> email between the peters and those wishing to rename
> them.
To help put an end to this little "controversy"...I agree
with _both_
of the above statements. Yes, we shouldn't take ourselves
and life
too seriously. However, when the silliness results in high
volume
posting almost totally related to the silliness and
practically drowns
out the other discussions, it needs to go to e-mail.
Remember, each
post goes to people's e-mail boxes, and there are people
who have to
leave this list on occasion because of the number of posts.
I don't
mind if it's high volume and on topic. However, high volume
and not
really on topic is something I generally have to end up
stepping in to
say something about.
My personal opinion on the a**licker thing is that even if
he did want
to call himself that, I would call him "al." I prefer not
to have to
primarily think of someone in terms of their favorite
sexual
activity. Femsupremacy is about much more than that. I
wouldn't
forbid someone from using such a name here, but I wouldn't
use it.
Dee-Ann
List Admin
the subject "help".
From - Sun Sep 8 17:15:31 1996
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Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:04:38 -0400
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: Laura Goodwin
Subject: Re:Let's move on!
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Marc wrote:
>Three women in a cooperative household with 3
submissive men("husbands")
each could easily >generate a huge cash surplus. This
surplus would allow
the household to acquire significant capital >resources.
A few such
households working together would generate a staggering
amount of wealth.
The >secret is that the natural managers - the women -
would control and
administer the wealth. The men >would be managed and
trained in a business.
All their natural competitiveness and energy would be
>channeled by the
women. They would work in a clean, healthy environment and
develop healthy
habits.
One woman alone could easily manage three husbands. Three
women united
could probably manage twenty or more. :)
I agree that the nuclear family model is expensive and not
as practical in
many ways as group living.
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon 6:10)
the subject "help".
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From: "The Night-Hag"
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Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 17:15:13 +0000
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Subject: FS Households...FSUtopia??
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> Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 13:51:13 -0500
> Laura wrote:
> >
> >One woman alone could easily manage three
husbands. Three women united
> >could probably manage twenty or more. :)
> >
> Please explain?
> peter (kriv)
>
One woman having 3 husbands is much more realistic than
thinking 3 strong-willed, dominant women could live
together in
a cooperative household. Have any of the women on the list
lived
in a matricentric household, sharing authority with other
women?
I would be very interested in the experiences of those who
have
lived this way in reality. It sounds so easy; just get the
women
to agree on everything, divide up the responsibilities and
your
"in".
I rather suspect if women cannot agree on a mail-list, it
is doubtful
living day to day under the same roof would work. I wonder
why we feel
women banning together to share households would be more
beneficial
than a household ruled by a single woman? It is very
idealistic, but
not likely to succeed, unless the dominant women are able
put aside
their need for autonomy and learn to compromise for the
sake of
community. However, freedom and self-rule is where power
begins and ends.
How will the FSUtopia be managed? Will a President with
House
and Senate be elected? Ho hum...same ol', same ol'!! I feel
certain
most here would concede that no two women ever agree on
everything, much less
those women who have constitutionally strong minds, hearts
and spirits.
Who will be the Boss the Bosses? It is easy to fantasize
about women
and cooperation. There will be some who may work well
together, but
there will always be a pecking order, even amongst those
who are
agressive and dominant. Now, before you rag on the Hag, go
out, find
a few women you want to hook up with, then do it! Live this
way
for at least a year...then come back and tell us how it
really was.
Dont sugar coat it, give us all the lurid, graphic details
Each woman knows what is best for herself and those she
rules.
I believe the quixotic quest for this type of FSUtopia is
a bit like going to the outhouse and thinking you are going
to fill up the hole with one poop!
Luridly,
The Night-Hag
the subject "help".
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Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 12:51:29 +0200
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From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FS Households...FSUtopia??
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FS-Houshold?
What a great image. :)
But isnt this the *classic* living-form? The women rule at
home, the men in
the jungle (out there)?
Dee-Ann wrote:
> Well, it's very easy to leave a mailing list. :) If
you're together
> living in a house, and bound by leases or whatnot,
you've got more of
> a reason to try to get along. I can't see it working
with a 3 women
> being totally equal unless they strictly stuck with a
voting system.
> With 3 there couldn't be any ties. However, I know a
number of women
> who consider themselves dominant to men and submissive
to other
> women. A household with 1 "top" matriarch and 2 women
below her but
> in charge of the others I can see working. It's all a
matter of
> setting it up properly with the right people, and
maintaining it
> properly with rules and communication.
>
Well,this all goes for men too. I am living in such a
community since five
years and before this i was living in other commuities with
several people
that worked. We are 3 men ,sometimes 5, have a big
appartment and it works.
Of course we have our troubles with each other but as long
you are willing
to live together it works. I dont see any reason why it
should not work
with three women.
The point is just that you should accept and respect each
other. As soon as
one person starts to dominate the others there will be a
big problem at
least in our community, exept you want to be dominated.
Living in a community makes everything cheaper, the rate,
the food,
everything.
And maybe it works with us because no one here has a own
family and dont
have sexual contact with each other.So we are not a couple
or tripple or
what ever. Everyone earns his own money and so we are able
to pay the rate
for a huge appartment that gives everyone of us enough
space to live.
I generally do have the impression that there is an
increasing number of
two or three people-with-the-same-gender housholds, at
least here in
vienna.
> I agree that women need to be able to work together
for female
> supremacy to be viable. If women can't work together,
how can we
> expect men to work together. However, I see quite a
number of
> organizations out there with women working happily and
successfully
> together. Once again, it's all about how it's set up,
who's involved,
> and how it's maintained.
>
But men are working together! That makes them so powerfull.
I dont
understand the myth that men arent able to work together.
Our whole
civilication builds upon the working together of men and it
were always
groups of men who won a race never one person alone. It is
the (only)
secret why men-kind now dominate the whole world.(or think
that they do)
And I am very happy that women more and more learn to work
together and
build organizations and companies, support groups and
communicate. Every
community needs a philosophy or a religion or simply a myth
but most of all
communication and interaction.If you want to live alone but
are somehow
forced to live in a group you dont like it wont really
work.
That goes for the small groups like households and it goes
for the huge
communities like companies, nations, societies.
What i want to say is simply that if three or more women
want to live
together in one houshold it will work if they are sure that
it is what they
want. And if they want some subbies to live with them it
will also work if
there are rules and the will to accept these.
But if there are children too, this whole thing is a VERY
big houshold, I
would call it a village then.
Bernd
the subject "help".
From - Sun Sep 8 17:15:38 1996
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To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: macrog@terraport.net (Marc Boyer)
Subject: Re: FS households/businesses
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>Paul/maidpaula wrote:
>
>Interesting post, Marc. Generating huge monetary
returns isn't "easy"
>however, you seem to be making a big leap here. Just
the fact that women
>are controlling things is no guarantee of success.
Creating a successful
>business takes capital, skillful application of
knowledge, marketing skill,
>dedication, and a *lot* of hard work.
I take your point Paul. I don't want to blithely assume
some huge business
break through will guarantee financial success to a female
centered
co-operative household. We agree, I believe, on the
spiritual and personal
value of such households. However, the economic success
that I am speaking
of is not necessarily based on all the members being part
of the same
business (although I find this very attractive.) The
viabibity of such an
FS household is based on what economists call "differential
rates of
development."
Let us assume your scenario of men bringing their various
talents and skills
(including existing jobs) to the Household economy. The
fact is that there
are 2 factors generating surplus here. One is the economics
of scale. One
very large house housing 3 woman centered families is
cheaper than three
separate houses etc. etc. etc. And two is the authority
exercised by the
woman managers to keep down the high consumption, low
quality garbage
expenses. There is also the lifestyle discipline imposed by
women that
reduces health costs and improving productivity.
If we simply assume that the FS selection procedure
produces an average
income earner (I suspect it would do much better than that)
then
differential rates of development will mean that (on
average) the FS
Household will get progressively more prosperous than the
standard household.
If some of this surplus gets plowed back into successful
business ventures
under direction of good women managers (and the latest
results from
investment agencies around the world show that women, on
average, are
better risk managers) then this increasing prosperity could
turn into
ownership of wealth generating business enterprises.
Now this should be true for any group using this
co-operative technique.
However, we seem to have lost our ability to enter into
this type of
co-operative venture. This has made us incredibly
vulnerable to corporate
voodoo economics. Rugged economic individualism is a fairy
tale foisted on
us by corporations that themselves are text book cases of
the use of
co-operation to ride differential rates of development.
I think that we have simply lost faith. I do not think that
it is an
accident that most of the economically successful
non-mainstream groups such
as Mennonites, Jews, Jains, Quakers etc have defined
themselves by religion.
It is here that the power of the Goddess and the force
behind FS principles
becomes so very important. All visions of better social
organization have
utopian elements. However, we know that the people who make
them work are
not destroyed by the discrepancy between the ideal and the
practice.
The operative word here is "Better." FS households would be
better, happier
and more satisfying than most existing arrangements. And
this includes more
prosperous. There is a thirst in the land for a better way
to live than
being caught in the tarantula dance of neo-conservative
corporate economics.
I have now made 2 extensive talk-talk postings in 2 days
and I shall shut up
and listen to the rain outside my window and the whisper of
wind in the
trees. Did I really stick my kneck out like this...?
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
>
>
the subject "help".
From - Sun Sep 8 19:55:37 1996
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Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 11:52:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Micah L. Martin"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Types of submission
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<199609042115.OAA26719@netcom9.netcom.com>
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On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Coyote Sings wrote:
> I certainly have my voice and vote, but either a) I
can be outvoted or b)
> it is my natural inclination to yield on many isssues
(but sometimes only
> after heated debate, and if men are involved, I never
yield- almost to the
> point of making me out a liar on everything else I say
here).
This seems to be a common pattern among male subs--the
tendency to submit
to women need not be conjoined with any tendency to submit
to men, and in
fact the reverse inclination seems to be pretty common.
I have my own peculiarities in this game. I probably don't
come across as
very submissive at all on this list, because i'm not when
it comes to
ideas or arguments. To my mind submitting to a bad argument
is like
submitting to a flawed mathematical proof--an absurdity,
and one which
does no service to anyone, and in particular does not serve
the one to
whom you are submitting. I would say it is a part of the
duty of a sub to
reason as clearly as they may, and give their opinion with
absolute
honesty when asked for it; of course this does not mean
always being
argumentative about things!
Be that as it may, in "real life" i am quite submissive,
and that
includes towards other males.
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 16:52:31 1996
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From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
Message-Id:
<199609091044.DAA03477@netcom11.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Types of submission
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 03:43:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: from "Micah L. Martin" at Sep 8, 96 11:52:43
am
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>
> On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Coyote Sings wrote:
>
> > I certainly have my voice and vote, but either a)
I can be outvoted or b)
> > it is my natural inclination to yield on many
isssues (but sometimes only
> > after heated debate, and if men are involved, I
never yield- almost to the
> > point of making me out a liar on everything else
I say here).
>
Micah replied:
> This seems to be a common pattern among male subs--the
tendency to submit
> to women need not be conjoined with any tendency to
submit to men, and in
> fact the reverse inclination seems to be pretty
common.
>
> I have my own peculiarities in this game. I probably
don't come across as
> very submissive at all on this list, because i'm not
when it comes to
> ideas or arguments.
> Be that as it may, in "real life" i am quite
submissive, and that
> includes towards other males.
As I suggested, I am probably less than credible in the
'lifestyle'
sense because of this, which is one reason I avoid the
formal 'scene.'
Picky, huh? But it works this way: long experience has
taught me to
trust Women more than men most of the time. In the past
when a Woman
has sought to have me 'submit' (or even relate) to another
male,
Her proximate authority over me vanished and I simply shut
down while
my processors labor to resolve what to me is a patent surd.
Or to look at it another way, my struggle is to honor the
Feminine
in myself and in life generally. Males, despite some -less
than
in most mens' lives- friendships, simply are not on my
radar, and
I have contrived -at some cost- to eliminate males from all
proximate
power relationships anywhere in my life.
All of this aversion to males intensified in and after the
year
spent as the principal caregiver to my brother while he
died of AIDS.
It did not in any way ennoble or beatify me -especially
given my
brother's lifelong promiscuity and vocal disdain for safe
sex (or for
responsibility of any kind)- and left me with a visceral
aversion
to male sexuality of any kind, however expressed. So, OK,
for a year
I submitted, and was nice and nurturing and not judgemental
and
cleaned up his literally lethal shit. And haven't felt
clean since,
nor so much as shaken hands with a man without cringing. No
more.
Sorry if I'm raining on anyone's parade- that's not my
intent- but
there it is, and I for one won't pursue it here.
Peace
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it
count.
The rest is hidden.
the subject "help".
From - Sun Sep 8 19:55:46 1996
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Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 12:59:05 -0400
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: Laura Goodwin
Subject: Sex & Housework (Re: FS
Households...FSUtopia??)
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Night-Hag wrote:
>I rather suspect if women cannot agree on a mail-list,
it is doubtful
>living day to day under the same roof would work. I
wonder why we feel
>women banning together to share households would be
more beneficial
>than a household ruled by a single woman? It is very
idealistic, but
>not likely to succeed, unless the dominant women are
able put aside
>their need for autonomy and learn to compromise for the
sake of
>community.
There a lot of truth to this. Most of the women I know,
"dominant" or not,
are very jealous of their household queendoms. I suspect it
may have a lot
to do with the way patriarchal society has granted us only
the tiny domestic
sphere as our undisputed territory. As little as we've got,
as much as we
have to fight for more, the _one place_ that women do not
want to struggle
for dominance is in their own damn households! Our power to
decide
decorating, menu, and child care matters goes mostly
unquestioned, until
another woman gets involved...
I once lived with a Lesbian lover, and dominance was
settled from the
beginning, so my taste prevailed until the relationship
began to sour. I
knew the honeymoon was over when she moved the furniture
around in the
living room without asking me first! ;)
Other lesbian couples seem to make such decisions by either
assigning one
partner the domestic management, or by arriving at an
endless series of
diplomatic compromises. I have seen that unless there is a
clear
understanding to take turns with household tasks, that one
partner tends to
take over eventually.
I envision a workable scenario, where one woman is
designated the household
manager, and she delegates chores. Another way is to get
the women of the
house together for meetings where household management is
accomplished by
committee, perhaps with a rotating supervisor's position.
Speaking of housework and same-sex couples, male couples
and multiple
households of gay men tend to solve these difficulties
easier than hetero
male roommates do. The pattern with het males seems to be
to let everything
go to hell, unless they have women coming over, which
inspires a frenzy of
emergency cleaning procedures. :) Single het males living
alone don't mind
cleaning up after themselves, but give 'em a roommate and
it's a contest to
see who notices the dust last!
Not that there aren't any slob women, mind you! I have
known lots of women
who were lovely people that could visit me anytime, but I
wouldn't go to
their house without a moon-suit! Still, is considered
"unfeminine" to be
untidy, eh, what? And being a slob, even filthy, is
tolerated more easily
in males...eh, what?
I can dig a woman who is domestically "casual", though. Why
should women
expend so much precious energy and creativity on
drudge-work? Home should
be a haven, not a sweat-shop!
Numbers-wise, guys are probably as likely as gals to be
fastidious, and have
been known to carry it to absurd degrees. I have one
bachelor friend who is
constantly cleaning, and when he couldn't get a spot to
come out of his
kitchen floor, *he replaced the flooring*. Gimmee some
slaves like that
guy! If the women wake up and breakfast is cooked, if they
sit at the
'puter to work and the coffee is right there, if the house
always smells of
fresh furniture polish, if the seat is always down and the
curtains are
always dust-free, I don't think you'd have too many
struggles. :)
...Or maybe you would, but at least it would be about
something new.
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon 6:10)
the subject "help".
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From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
Message-Id:
<199609090459.VAA00397@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Subject: Re: Sex & Housework (Re: FS
Households...FSUtopia??)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 21:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
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from "Laura Goodwin" at Sep 8, 96 12:59:05 pm
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Laura Goodwin wrote:
>
> There a lot of truth to this. Most of the women I
know, "dominant" or not,
> are very jealous of their household queendoms. I
suspect it may have a lot
> to do with the way patriarchal society has granted us
only the tiny domestic
> sphere as our undisputed territory. As little as we've
got, as much as we
> have to fight for more, the _one place_ that women do
not want to struggle
> for dominance is in their own damn households! Our
power to decide
> decorating, menu, and child care matters goes mostly
unquestioned, until
> another woman gets involved...
I think it could work with the right combination of people.
A neat
freak is going to want to be in charge of making sure the
house is
clean to her satisfaction. Some with a flair for decorating
is going
to want to/enjoy being in charge of making sure the house
is arranged
perfectly. A woman with a gourmet palate will want to be
sure that
the food meets her tastes. As long as you combine folks
who's life's
passion doesn't collide direction with someone else's
life's passion
you can probably get along just fine. Just make sure that
the neat
freak's kitchen cleaners understand not to wash out the
gourmet's cast
iron pots with soap. :) I do think it would take the right
kind of
personalities to be able to do this, though. Someone who
wants to be
in total control of everything would likely be unhappy in
this kind of
arrangement.
> I once lived with a Lesbian lover, and dominance was
settled from the
> beginning, so my taste prevailed until the
relationship began to sour. I
> knew the honeymoon was over when she moved the
furniture around in the
> living room without asking me first! ;)
Hehe. Well, I find I can get kind of laid back. I think I
would
function well as being in charge of one facet of a
household, as long
as my needs/tastes were at least somewhat considered in the
bigger
picture. However, I wouldn't want it to be my sole job in
life!
Certainly, the house "matriarchs" wouldn't be bound to only
work in
the house. That would be just their home responsibilities.
Just as
carrying out their tasks would be the home responsibilities
of those
who served them. Just some thoughts sparked mostly from
other posts
on the subject.
[some deleted]
> I envision a workable scenario, where one woman is
designated the household
> manager, and she delegates chores. Another way is to
get the women of the
> house together for meetings where household management
is accomplished by
> committee, perhaps with a rotating supervisor's
position.
That could work. Especially if no one in the group "loved"
doing
household management duty. Then, everyone would know what a
pain it
was, and everyone would respect the work that goes into it
and the
cooperation necessary to make it work.
> Speaking of housework and same-sex couples, male
couples and multiple
> households of gay men tend to solve these difficulties
easier than hetero
> male roommates do. The pattern with het males seems to
be to let everything
> go to hell, unless they have women coming over, which
inspires a frenzy of
> emergency cleaning procedures. :) Single het males
living alone don't mind
> cleaning up after themselves, but give 'em a roommate
and it's a contest to
> see who notices the dust last!
I had a boyfriend once who lived with 4 other men. He's
actually a
neat freak, but after a while he couldn't stand doing the
work of 5
people. So, he stopped and just basically kept his room
clean and
washed his own dishes. I remember going to help out with
the cleaning
when they moved out. Ack! I think part of this problem is
that het
men still have that monkey on their back of "a man doesn't
do
housecleaning." It's easy to overcome when you live alone,
no one
sees you doing it. :)
> Not that there aren't any slob women, mind you! I have
known lots of women
> who were lovely people that could visit me anytime,
but I wouldn't go to
> their house without a moon-suit! Still, is considered
"unfeminine" to be
> untidy, eh, what? And being a slob, even filthy, is
tolerated more easily
> in males...eh, what?
Hehe. My grandmother was a neat freak. My aunt is a neat
freak. My
mother is tidy, but considered the slob of the family. I
kind of take
more after my mom. Lately, though, I seem to go in and out
of
cleaning mode. Possibly because I'm having to cut back time
on my
computer (which I work at as well as goof around on) due to
various
reasons, and I find myself looking around my house going,
"You know, I
think it's time to go rearrange those book so they're on
those shelves
in alphebetical order, by subject."
> I can dig a woman who is domestically "casual",
though. Why should women
> expend so much precious energy and creativity on
drudge-work? Home should
> be a haven, not a sweat-shop!
My grandmother-in-law cleans every day. Vacuums every day.
Dusts
every day. Does laundry every day. She lives in a postage
stamp of
an apartment. I suspect it's a combination of coming from a
generation that was expected to keep a perfect house, and
being
retired. Though, the woman has far more of a social life
than I do!
I think some folks just can't stand to see their place not
perfectly
clean. Gives them a kind of sense of peace.
Dee-Ann
who seems recently to be inspired to make long, rambling
posts :)
the subject "help".
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From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
Subject: Re: good and bad will
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This is just an excellent response by fiona and robert
forsythe.
I feel FS has nothing to do with religion, economics etc.
It has to do with
a relationship between a man and a woman. A very intricate
relationship, we
all agree. And it all comes down to one thing: sex.
It brings something up that I have been wondering about for
a long time. No
doubt it has been discussed before, but maybe we could take
another shot at
it.
One question comes to mind. Well, actually two questions
because I fear I
might get severely flamed if I ask only the first question.
They are:
Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so much in need
of her
submissive man that she will do anything to keep him? Will
she give in to
his sexual desires and quirks so that he will be happy and
will remain with
her? Is she then relegating herself to the role of a whore?
Or:
Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so attuned to
her power and
sexuality and is a man such a crude sexual creature that
she can use this
sexuality to get him to do whatever she wishes?
>
peter (kriv)>
>
>
fiona and robert forsythe wrote:>
>
>>One of our big questions in subscribing to fs was
to try to work out
>whose side is this all on. Between the two of us we
were quite clear our
>own private fs was a force for the good of our
relationship. But what
>might it mean in a broader context? To the old order of
Christians it
>would seem clear all fs was a negative force upsetting
the divine male
>dominated order. Well we do not sign up to that anyway
and would rather
>have a Godless world than one which said male
domination is divine, the
>empirical evidence for the good a male dominated world
achieved is not
>great.
>
>Having now been on the list a while (and realising that
it is
>practically an open access list), we think we can
distinguish two
>trends. There is an fs which believes male submission
would fulfill the
>male, make a better world and relieve threat to the
female. It maybe is
>a naive hope and it may founder perhaps because the
human person shares
>more between the sexes than there are differences? Are
females exempt
>the all power corrupts syndrome? Nonetheless it is a
hope that seems to
>us full of goodwill, it wants the best for all.
>
>And because we personally believe that legislating folk
into narrow
>sexual practices ain'nt done much good, we can also see
fd working for
>some in this context. For a man to learn to put his
needs second, to
>even accept punishment, to works on the needs of his
other, when so
>often in the past there was not partnership seems like
a good. And if to
>be blunt you use all the toys from the catalogue, enjoy
fetish fashion,
>even cry out for a whipping, if that is what consensual
adult partners
>do, it is about time the world rose above tabloid
headlines. That is the
>fs/fd of goodwill and we have been cheered to think
that we have seen
>much of it on this list.
>
>There is another fs which seems to crop up in the
world, on the net in
>some areas and on the list at times. Its members can be
both m/f. If m
>it seems to manifest itself in looking for an fd which
will provide a
>sexual thrill and still allow the m to be a m the rest
of the time,
>making cheap comments, defining the image of women to
suit his own
>fantasies and generally the sort of yobbish behaviour
men seem brilliant
>about when left untrained. There also seems to be some
females whose fs
>is also similiarly grabbing, their domination of men
seems to have no
>more agenda than that of exercising power for its own
sake. Power is not
>evil, power exercised for the good is a superb force
and women (and men)
>who seek to exercise power for goodwill deserve to
enjoy that, but
>power exercised for sheer power is corrupting.
Historically it corrupted
>the men who made it their own for the sake of male
dominance, it will do
>the same for women and any woman who wants to corrupt a
man by making
>him a slave of her badwill will at the last be a very
unhappy person.
>
>You will see we have tried to avoid bringing any
God/Devil too much into
>this little piece. We cannot presume to tell anyone
whether either of
>these two parties actually exist and we would prefer to
have the G
>without the D, Nonetheless the force of human power in
the belief of
>each is tremendous, and for what it is worth we will
throw down our
>warning: add fs to any belief in a cosmic force of
badwill and the
>person concerned will create an energy capable of
harming themselves and
>those around them very greatly. It is an energy which
we would hope
>those who see fs in other lights would assertively say
"no way", one
>compelling reason being that if fs is ever to become a
really forceful
>lifestyle it will have to overcome an historical male
dominated trend
>and press that would be delighted to portray the whole
thing as the work
>of the devil - to which any fs/fd who allies themselves
thereto feeds an
>awful amount of grist into the mill.
>
>We hope that this will remain Dee-Ann's list because we
have built up
>trust in her goodwill.
>--
>fiona and robert forsythe
>
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 12:26:32 1996
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To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
Subject: Re: good and bad will
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kriv wrote:
>I feel FS has nothing to do with religion, economics
etc.
Kind of like an ignition having nothing to with the car?
>It has to do with
>a relationship between a man and a woman. A very
intricate relationship, we
>all agree. And it all comes down to one thing: sex.
I disagree. I feel FS is an all-encompassing frame of mind.
If a female
restricts Her supremacy to the bedroom, isn't that merely a
"role" in a
fantasy game? This is not My conception of Female
Supremacy!!!
It is also *not* limited to the relationship between a man
and a Woman! It
has to do with empowerment of all females! It has to do
with *not* being
controlled by men (or women) to the point where She loses
Her self and
sacrifices Her power!
Boiling it all down to one thing: sex, is limiting your
potential to give
of yourself in order to create a mutually pleasant
environment! I keep
thinking back on previous postings to this list that
related the gender
differences (male manipulation of the female to get what he
wants: sex...
to the point of "pushing" and the analogy of women being
content in a field
of flowers) and Patricia's disturbing... but true... stats
on Domestic
Violence.
When a female dabbles with FS, she is setting Herself up to
change Her
whole life and thinking for the better! It may start in the
bedroom but
will no doubt seep into every corner of Her mind and every
aspect of Her
life! MORE power to HER! Of course, I've considered the
good/bad will
posting (which was very good) and assumed it is for the
good.
>Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so much in
need of her
>submissive man that she will do anything to keep him?
Not as much as My submissive (and actually all of society)
is in need of
Me. If I can bring about one ort of change in the way
"people" treat women
or the way women allow themselves to be treated... then I
am needed (and I
strive to accomplish this daily).
>Will she give in to his sexual desires and quirks so
that he will be happy
>and >will remain with her?
I would never deliberately "give in" to anything for the
sole purpose of
his happiness but I like to think that I have enough of an
open mind to try
those suggestions that genuinely arouse *My* interest! (You
must have this
list confused with aol or CoDA!?!) I'm not saying that men
are disposable
but if his happiness is the catalyst without thought or
pursuit of Her
own... go now and betray yourself no more!
>Is she then relegating herself to the role of a whore?
Most definately... be careful here. "Female Supremacy" is
the name of the
list you are treading and I haven't encountered any female
participants who
fit your previous or following descriptions.
>Or:
>Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so attuned
to her power and
>sexuality and is a man such a crude sexual creature
that she can use this
>sexuality to get him to do whatever she wishes?
Peter... I sense a desperate need for you to disprove your
past experiences
and male reality. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to do it.
I am not
eloquent enough or invested, in you, enough to enlighten
your perceptions!
Please... close your eyes and try to look at the world
through the crack in
your reality that got you here!... here's a hug ((((*))))
to ease your
confusion and anger that you may be wrong about FS
theory/motivation!
If you want to learn more, sit down, open your mind, and
just learn it!
Emerging Women's Reality in a White Male Society,
Leather
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
\ /
http://www.leatherme.com P.O. Box 86689 \ O /
\/Y\/
http://www.zephyr.net/leather/ Portland, OR )\
_____/__\______
toll free: 1-888-233-2055 97286-0689
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 16:52:09 1996
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To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
Subject: Re: good and bad will
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Leather:
An extremely well-thought response. However, I disagree
with your final
paragraphs.
I apologize for not saying that my original post was not my
idea of an FS
relationship.
I was just bringing forth what I perceive is society's view
of such a
relationship. And, while I believe what you say is the
situation with all
women in this forum, I believe they are by far the vast
minority.
Don't shoot, me, I'm only the messenger.
peter (kriv)>
>
>kriv wrote:
>
>>I feel FS has nothing to do with religion,
economics etc.
>
>Kind of like an ignition having nothing to with the
car?
>
>>It has to do with
>>a relationship between a man and a woman. A very
intricate relationship, we
>>all agree. And it all comes down to one thing: sex.
>
>I disagree. I feel FS is an all-encompassing frame of
mind. If a female
>restricts Her supremacy to the bedroom, isn't that
merely a "role" in a
>fantasy game? This is not My conception of Female
Supremacy!!!
>
>It is also *not* limited to the relationship between a
man and a Woman! It
>has to do with empowerment of all females! It has to do
with *not* being
>controlled by men (or women) to the point where She
loses Her self and
>sacrifices Her power!
>
>Boiling it all down to one thing: sex, is limiting your
potential to give
>of yourself in order to create a mutually pleasant
environment! I keep
>thinking back on previous postings to this list that
related the gender
>differences (male manipulation of the female to get
what he wants: sex...
>to the point of "pushing" and the analogy of women
being content in a field
>of flowers) and Patricia's disturbing... but true...
stats on Domestic
>Violence.
>
>When a female dabbles with FS, she is setting Herself
up to change Her
>whole life and thinking for the better! It may start in
the bedroom but
>will no doubt seep into every corner of Her mind and
every aspect of Her
>life! MORE power to HER! Of course, I've considered the
good/bad will
>posting (which was very good) and assumed it is for the
good.
>
>>Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so much
in need of her
>>submissive man that she will do anything to keep
him?
>
>Not as much as My submissive (and actually all of
society) is in need of
>Me. If I can bring about one ort of change in the way
"people" treat women
>or the way women allow themselves to be treated... then
I am needed (and I
>strive to accomplish this daily).
>
>>Will she give in to his sexual desires and quirks
so that he will be happy
>>and >will remain with her?
>
>I would never deliberately "give in" to anything for
the sole purpose of
>his happiness but I like to think that I have enough of
an open mind to try
>those suggestions that genuinely arouse *My* interest!
(You must have this
>list confused with aol or CoDA!?!) I'm not saying that
men are disposable
>but if his happiness is the catalyst without thought or
pursuit of Her
>own... go now and betray yourself no more!
>
>>Is she then relegating herself to the role of a
whore?
>
>
>Most definately... be careful here. "Female Supremacy"
is the name of the
>list you are treading and I haven't encountered any
female participants who
>fit your previous or following descriptions.
>
>>Or:
>
>>Who is in control here? Is a dominant woman so
attuned to her power and
>>sexuality and is a man such a crude sexual creature
that she can use this
>>sexuality to get him to do whatever she wishes?
>
>Peter... I sense a desperate need for you to disprove
your past experiences
>and male reality. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to do
it. I am not
>eloquent enough or invested, in you, enough to
enlighten your perceptions!
>Please... close your eyes and try to look at the world
through the crack in
>your reality that got you here!... here's a hug
((((*)))) to ease your
>confusion and anger that you may be wrong about FS
theory/motivation!
>
>If you want to learn more, sit down, open your mind,
and just learn it!
>
>Emerging Women's Reality in a White Male Society,
>Leather
>
>
>
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>>
>leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
> \ /
>http://www.leatherme.com P.O. Box 86689 \ O /
> \/Y\/
>http://www.zephyr.net/leather/ Portland, OR )\
> _____/__\______
>toll free: 1-888-233-2055 97286-0689
>
>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 16:52:06 1996
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From: Jonnan West
Message-Id: <199609082310.SAA25803@indy2.indy.net>
Subject: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 18:10:26 -0500 (EST)
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First of all, please allow me to apologize in advance for
any
offense I might give, or rehashing what may be old hat for
this mailing
list. I will confess to having joined this list out of my
curious nature,
not due to any intrinsic belief in the 'superiority' of
either gender
over the other, and may be operating from different basic
assumptions
than others on this list. If this is so, and I phrase
someting in a
offensive or impolite manner, I apologize.
(And now onto my offensive and impolite commentary - )
I've read this list for all of a few days now, and although
the
commentary is interesting, it looks (to me) as if the
primary goal is the
(valid) recognition of the fact that there is no intrinsic
weakness of
the female that should result in a societal judgment of
women being
somehow 'incapable' or unable to take a place alongside
(Or, judging from
the listname, above - ) men in government, business, et al.
I agree with this, as far as it goes. What I do not
understand is
why the desire (or justification) for a 'gynosupremist'
society, as
oppposed to an egalitarian one in which -neither- gender is
judged solely
on the basis of it's gender.
Not (as far as I can tell from my admittedly short period
of
receiving mail) revenge. Those on this list do not appear
to be so
unbalanced as to believe that revenge is an appropriate
motivation for
restructering a society.
Not (In my limited experience) any intrinsic superiority of
the
female mind, intelligence, empathy, or conscience, over the
male mind.
While I might (or might not) concede that the average
female might have
more capacity for these positive attributes than the
average male, the
overlap is so high that, if I was to base a society on such
things, I
would judge individuals by -their- capacities for these
attributes, not
their gender.
By the same token, the negative things in those who fight
to keep
power are not somehow absent from the female mind. Greed,
hunger for
power for it's own sake, intellectual (and other)
dishonesty, disrespect
for the feelings of others, bigotry, et al, are not things
somehow left
to men to employ by ourselves. There would appear
(Unfortunately) to be
plenty of negatives to share between the genders.
The only other possible explanation that -I- can imagine
would be
some belief that the worldviews of the genders are -so-
inherently
incompatible somehow, that it isn't possible for an
egalitarian society
to form, that only one or the other gender can be in power
at a time.
While sometimes attractive (Usually when I'm trying talk to
an attractive
female - ), this theory doesn't hold up particularly well
to
inspection. Childbearing is the one primary physical
difference between
men and women, and the fact is that both parents do love
the child. If we
were of some species where the males impregnated the
females only when
they were in heat, then left, never to see the females or
young again, I
could believe that this single difference would be enough
to keep the
worldviews that far apart. However that -isn't- the case,
men (Most Men)
do choose to mate with women they love, and -do- love their
children.
Their choices for the future -are- based on what they
believe is best for
their wife and child. While the worldview may be different
(I'm sure it
is) it's not -that- different.
So why would one wish to assume the position of superiority
over
those who are best regarded as equals? Or what am I missing
that -does-
establish the female gender as intrinsically superior?
Jonnan West
the subject "help".
From - Wed Sep 11 16:54:47 1996
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To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com,
femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: mike
Subject: Re: the ultimate taboo
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Hello Billy
Long time no hear, hope all is well with you. i understand
your post, and
understand where your coming from, but yet not going by
societal reasons,
i must disagree with you on this. i myself have fantasized
the same as
yourself and also have dreamed of being the complete toilet
to the Goddess i
am blessed to someday serve. but yet having a discussion
with other Dominas
in the past about this one very subject, i do understand
the reason why the
majority of Dominas out there do not use their slaves in
this manner. One
Domina that i have known for many years works within the
medical
proffession, through many studies, it is a known fact that
brown showers
or scat has many unhealthy bacteria within it, that causes
many diseases
such as hepatitis and more, but Golden Showers are much
different, where a
golden shower has many proteins and is not a dangerous form
of worship.
i guess the point i am trying to get across is that as a
slave myself, i
know that the slaves health is very important, because it
is a slaves
purpose in life to serve their Goddess and Owner to the
fullest capibilty
that they can and beyond. if they are plaqued by disease
due to such
activities, the slave would not be able to serve in that
manner, which
means to me that the purpose of my existance is not worth
anything. I feel
when a Domina takes ownership of a slave, the slaves
purpose is to serve
150%, and that maintaining good health is important so that
the priorities
of the Domina can be satisfied. You know me from the short
time that we had
spent together this year as friends, on where i am coming
from.
your brother slave
slave sal
the subject "help".
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Subject: Masochism, Submission, Sacrifice (Was Catholics)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:06:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Chase Vogelsberg"
In-Reply-To:
<199609090820.BAA21370@netcom11.netcom.com> from
"Coyote Sings" at Sep 9, 96 01:20:26 am
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Coyote Sings wrote:
> I'm not convinced that Jesus wanted to die the way he
did at all,
> nor that until the last 24 hours or so of his life he
even
> understood the full meaning of his impending death. He
was apparently
> willing to risk his life for the love he felt, but I
can't equate that
> with masochism.
>
> Note that I have characterized him as submissive.
Submission and
> masochism are not in my view the same thing at all:
again, masochism
> is transactional and at base selfish, submission is an
attempt a least
> at selfless behavior, i.e. at transcendence, and in
the case of Jesus
> seems to have an act of real power.
Seems to me you've three concepts here, at least, none of
which are the
same as the other two. Submission an' masochism most
certainly aren't one
another, this is true. I have to take exception to the
statement that
masochism is necessarily selfish/transactional, but then
again, I don't
agree that the crucifixtion was an act of submission. The
third concept,
that of self sacrifice, should probably be viewed as an
independent prin-
ciple - too many acts of self sacrifice have come from
non-submissive
types.
A mother who dies saving her child, a soldier who throws
himself on a hand
grenade, a martyr dying alone and in pain upon a cross - I
don't think a
one of them gave their lives in acts of submissiveness, any
more than a
woman risking herself to pull someone from an overturned
car is submitting
to the person trapped inside. Call it a momentary act of
courage, call it
a belief that some things are worth at least risking one's
life for, call
it pragmaticism, if you will - the soldier might sacrifice
himself as much
from a knowledge that they'd -all- die as anything else.
None of them
necessarily wanted to die, none of them were necessarily
happy or content
with their possible choices of actions, but they still
choose what most
would call the 'right' action.
Whereas submission, well, that's more a turning over of
one's will to
another, presumably because some content is found in doing
so. Even the
submissive who lives to please her or his Other presumably
finds happiness
in that other's pleasure, or in the service itself. I don't
think I'd call
it greedy or selfish, but.... It's not generally a matter
of selflessness
either - more a matter of someone else's desires being at
least nearly as
important as one's own. My view, anyways.
An' then masochism, bein' transactional and at base
selfish? Somewhat
harder to disagree here, but well, I'm on a roll. ;) I
guess it is, in
it's the pain is something desired, for one reason or
another. But is it
any more selfish than the desire for companionship, for
affection, or to
avoid pain? Some people inflict pain on themselves, because
for them it's
enjoyable. Guess they could be more generous an' let a
sadist enjoy the
pain as well, but what if they're alone? Finally, what
about the masochist
who needs the pain in order to function? The parent who
flagellates
hirself when alone, so that they can continue to get by,
who needs the
pain in order to cope and to continue to be a good provider
or mate? By
some standards they're perhaps disturbed, but greedy? If
there's a tran-
actional basis, well, aren't they the ones paying the
price?
> Uhm, are we on topic?
Heh. Well, I'm probably not.... ;->
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is
above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your
drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland
the subject "help".
From - Fri Sep 13 12:56:00 1996
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:40:13 -0800
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship
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>Jet wrote-
>
>Thank you for the beautiful and haunting poem (to
Patricia)...it is one of
>my >favorites as well.
I have never heard that one before and it moved me so much,
I printed it
out and will share it at my Womens Cirle tonight. (We meet
every month on
the New Moon.)
>Here is a class example of a woman who was squashed by
>patriarchy... I can understand and this is why I
subscribe to this list
>and I am trying to raise my daughter with the high
ideals I see here.
>I do not want her to have to struggle as we do and hope
that by the time
>she is an adult, it will be more equal or at the very
least much more
>supportive of women. If not, perhaps she will be
another of the catalysts.
I have two teenage sons. Teaching them the concepts of FS
has not been
easy. Society teaches them something different (men have
"the" power)... it
is a struggle for them to choose not to buy into it.
As a girl, I would have chosen FS was an option instead of
resign to
females finding a man and cleaving (in submission) to him.
Ack!!! Thank
Goddess I grew up and discovered My own truths! I'd hate to
have died early
and ignorant... never having known the pleasure of My "own"
power!
Leather
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
\ /
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the subject "help".
From - Thu Sep 12 16:31:54 1996
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From: Jonnan West
Message-Id: <199609120742.CAA20612@indy1.indy.net>
Subject: Re: Advise please
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com, titania@indy.net (Deanna
Roberts)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:42:10 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To:
<2.2.32.19960912042029.006917c4@popd.ix.netcom.com>
from "Laura Goodwin" at Sep 12, 96 00:20:29 am
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Okay. This is a Femsupremacy mailing list. I -knew- this
was a
Femsupremacy mailing list when I saw it on the sight I
found it on, I
knew I was distinctly -not- definable as a Femsupremist,
before I joined
and I up and joined anyway, read several days worth of mail
to get the
general 'flavor' of the discourse, saw an intelligent group
of people
debating an interesting philosophy (albeit one I disagreed
with on a
number of levels) and wanted to know the rationale behind
the philosophy.
I posted a long, fairly involved letter, and have gotten a
great
deal from the responses to that letter, positive and
negative, and have
attempted to follow the threads resulting from it to the
best of my
ability. Some of the areas I -thought- I knew fairly well,
I obviously
need more education in but even -that- information is not
information I
would have had had I not involved myself. Some other areas
I believe I
made valid points in, and -hopefully- explained -my-
rationale and
assumptions fairly well.
However I have evidently -not- been as polite in my debate
as I
would have hoped, and have severely offended at least one
person and
noted that at least two others evidently feel me to be a
disruptive
influence whose presence would not be missed. If I felt my
writing skills
and ability to communicate were up to the task of
maintaining a higher
level of decorum on a consistent basis, I might simply
refrain from
posting unless I could consistently maintain such a level
of decorum. I
will confess I didn't see that such a level was necessary,
but, a guest
in my home is not permitted the same level of familiarity
as someone whom
I have supped with for years, and I -am- the interloper who
barged in
requesting the secrets of the universe in small,
easy-to-handle pieces,
so perhaps it is a level that -I- need to be held to, if I
am to debate
on a list from an essentially contradictory viewpoint.
At any rate, it's not a level of decorum I can trust myself
-to-
hold to, and I therefore need a (consensus is not quite the
right term,
but I can't think of anything better) from those with a
long-term
understanding of the nature of debate on this mailing list.
I doubt I can maintain a level of decorum in any questions
or
debate in this list of any notably higher level than that I
have already
shown in most of my letters to this list. Nor am I likely
to drop any
notably below the level of those items I've already posted.
So the question becomes, do I, as an person already
announced to
be in conflict on some levels with the espoused views of
those on this
mailing list, have a right or a need to remain on this list
against the
notable objections of members in good standing who feel
that there is a
certain basic assumption that, females or feminine
qualities, however
defined, are intrinsically superior to males or masculine
qualities, that
should be shared by anyone actively participating in
discourse on this
list, and that those who are -not- in alignment with that
assumption,
should debate their philosophy elsewhere.
If this is the consensus of the group as a whole, or of a
large
minority, then I will depart the area rather than be a
source of further
friction within the list.
Until I have a reasonable amount of data either way, I'm
going to
remove myself to lurker status, watch any final opinions on
what I've
seen so far, and wait until I have enough data to justify
either leaving,
or rejoining the debate of issues myself.
To facilitate the keeping of private matters private and
not
cluttering up the list with what is, essentially, not a
matter concerning
Gynosupremacy in any but the most peripheral way, my E-Mail
address is
pugugly@indy.net. The choice of whether to use it is of
course completely
up to the respondent, but while it inevitably means that
the personal
E-Mail addresses of various members will be on my computer
until such
time as I remove them (Unless someone -specifically-
requests that I
should not do so), as well as making the consensus
something that will
-not- be public knowledge, it also avoids the fact that I
have,
unfortunately, seen differences of opinion turn into flame
wars over
less, and while I would be surprised at such an event in
what has been
for the most part a very polite exchange of opinions, I
would
nevertheless not care to take the responsibility for
instigating one when
a small amount of care can avoid it.
I apologize for the length of this post and any emotional
overtones that may have slipped by me during my writing of
it. I did
not want there to be any misunderstandings regarding what I
was
requesting of the list or the validity of the reasoning
that I should not
be debating a point of view essentially outside the
confines of the list.
Thank You
Jonnan West
pugugly@indy.net
the subject "help".
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Subject: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #15
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 15
Today's Topics:
Re: Advise please
Re: Advise please
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Delay In Messages
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: Good&Bad Will
Re: Advise please
Life-sapping analysis
Re: Advise please
Re: God/Goddess Worship
Re: Is all S&M sexual?
Take this to email, why not? (Re: Central vs. Peripheral)
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:42:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Jonnan West
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com, titania@indy.net (Deanna
Roberts)
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id: <199609120742.CAA20612@indy1.indy.net>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 5141
Okay. This is a Femsupremacy mailing list. I -knew- this
was a
Femsupremacy mailing list when I saw it on the sight I
found it on, I
knew I was distinctly -not- definable as a Femsupremist,
before I joined
and I up and joined anyway, read several days worth of mail
to get the
general 'flavor' of the discourse, saw an intelligent group
of people
debating an interesting philosophy (albeit one I disagreed
with on a
number of levels) and wanted to know the rationale behind
the philosophy.
I posted a long, fairly involved letter, and have gotten a
great
deal from the responses to that letter, positive and
negative, and have
attempted to follow the threads resulting from it to the
best of my
ability. Some of the areas I -thought- I knew fairly well,
I obviously
need more education in but even -that- information is not
information I
would have had had I not involved myself. Some other areas
I believe I
made valid points in, and -hopefully- explained -my-
rationale and
assumptions fairly well.
However I have evidently -not- been as polite in my debate
as I
would have hoped, and have severely offended at least one
person and
noted that at least two others evidently feel me to be a
disruptive
influence whose presence would not be missed. If I felt my
writing skills
and ability to communicate were up to the task of
maintaining a higher
level of decorum on a consistent basis, I might simply
refrain from
posting unless I could consistently maintain such a level
of decorum. I
will confess I didn't see that such a level was necessary,
but, a guest
in my home is not permitted the same level of familiarity
as someone whom
I have supped with for years, and I -am- the interloper who
barged in
requesting the secrets of the universe in small,
easy-to-handle pieces,
so perhaps it is a level that -I- need to be held to, if I
am to debate
on a list from an essentially contradictory viewpoint.
At any rate, it's not a level of decorum I can trust myself
-to-
hold to, and I therefore need a (consensus is not quite the
right term,
but I can't think of anything better) from those with a
long-term
understanding of the nature of debate on this mailing list.
I doubt I can maintain a level of decorum in any questions
or
debate in this list of any notably higher level than that I
have already
shown in most of my letters to this list. Nor am I likely
to drop any
notably below the level of those items I've already posted.
So the question becomes, do I, as an person already
announced to
be in conflict on some levels with the espoused views of
those on this
mailing list, have a right or a need to remain on this list
against the
notable objections of members in good standing who feel
that there is a
certain basic assumption that, females or feminine
qualities, however
defined, are intrinsically superior to males or masculine
qualities, that
should be shared by anyone actively participating in
discourse on this
list, and that those who are -not- in alignment with that
assumption,
should debate their philosophy elsewhere.
If this is the consensus of the group as a whole, or of a
large
minority, then I will depart the area rather than be a
source of further
friction within the list.
Until I have a reasonable amount of data either way, I'm
going to
remove myself to lurker status, watch any final opinions on
what I've
seen so far, and wait until I have enough data to justify
either leaving,
or rejoining the debate of issues myself.
To facilitate the keeping of private matters private and
not
cluttering up the list with what is, essentially, not a
matter concerning
Gynosupremacy in any but the most peripheral way, my E-Mail
address is
pugugly@indy.net. The choice of whether to use it is of
course completely
up to the respondent, but while it inevitably means that
the personal
E-Mail addresses of various members will be on my computer
until such
time as I remove them (Unless someone -specifically-
requests that I
should not do so), as well as making the consensus
something that will
-not- be public knowledge, it also avoids the fact that I
have,
unfortunately, seen differences of opinion turn into flame
wars over
less, and while I would be surprised at such an event in
what has been
for the most part a very polite exchange of opinions, I
would
nevertheless not care to take the responsibility for
instigating one when
a small amount of care can avoid it.
I apologize for the length of this post and any emotional
overtones that may have slipped by me during my writing of
it. I did
not want there to be any misunderstandings regarding what I
was
requesting of the list or the validity of the reasoning
that I should not
be debating a point of view essentially outside the
confines of the list.
Thank You
Jonnan West
pugugly@indy.net
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-Id:
<199609120814.BAA03624@catherine.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3244
Jonnan West wrote:
[I've deleted much of this for brevity's sake.]
> However I have evidently -not- been as polite in my
debate as I
> would have hoped, and have severely offended at least
one person and
> noted that at least two others evidently feel me to be
a disruptive
> influence whose presence would not be missed. If I
felt my writing skills
> and ability to communicate were up to the task of
maintaining a higher
> level of decorum on a consistent basis, I might simply
refrain from
> posting unless I could consistently maintain such a
level of decorum. I
> will confess I didn't see that such a level was
necessary, but, a guest
> in my home is not permitted the same level of
familiarity as someone whom
> I have supped with for years, and I -am- the
interloper who barged in
> requesting the secrets of the universe in small,
easy-to-handle pieces,
> so perhaps it is a level that -I- need to be held to,
if I am to debate
> on a list from an essentially contradictory viewpoint.
Perhaps I was not clear that when I did some chastizing in
one of my
responses to you, they weren't entirely directed at you.
I've sent
you a more detailed response as to my feelings on "your
behaviour"
privately, I'm just responding publically here on things
that are
important for the overall list.
People who come here aren't REQUIRED to believe in female
supremacy.
Those who don't believe we ask to be polite (which you
are), and not
abuse folks on the list. The main feeling of resistance you
may be
getting may be from the simple fact that it's difficult to
just up and
explain why you believe in something you feel deeply about.
For some,
female supremacy is very spiritual, it's hard to write a
short,
consise essay of "Why I believe in Female Supremacy" when
this is the
case.
> At any rate, it's not a level of decorum I can trust
myself -to-
> hold to, and I therefore need a (consensus is not
quite the right term,
> but I can't think of anything better) from those with
a long-term
> understanding of the nature of debate on this mailing
list.
The main rule is simple. No flaming. I have and will tell
people to
quit it when things get reduced to flaming. There's also
the harder
to quantify thing of people just being plain annoying.
Folks who just
exist to bait people on the list, or just exist to make
people want to
strangle them. It's hard to draw that line, I try my best
to be fair
about it, but I can't say you've strayed near it.
> Until I have a reasonable amount of data either way,
I'm going to
> remove myself to lurker status, watch any final
opinions on what I've
> seen so far, and wait until I have enough data to
justify either leaving,
> or rejoining the debate of issues myself.
This is of course, your choice. I don't see that you need
to do so.
Perhaps keep in mind what I've said here and in private to
you. I
don't speak for the whole list, but I do speak for
"official list
policy."
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:20:55 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID: <32378030.104982321@post.demon.co.uk>
On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 11:26:33 -0400, Laura wrote:
>Women are superior to men, so it would not be assumed
superiority. It's
>equality that is assumed.
>
> If women weren't superior to men, then men wouldn't
need to handicap them
>so severely to keep them disadvantaged. If women
weren't naturally strong
>and dominant, men could just relax and wouldn't have to
work so hard at
>keeping them down. Women want equality under the law so
we can assert our
>natural dominance. Men know that women wouldn't stay
equal for long, so
>they fight it.
>
I don't think that men think about it that deeply even when
they do
try to make it difficult for women.
One of the main reasons why more women don't reach
positions of power
is they tend to spread themselves too thinly doing all the
things that
need to be done while men tend to concentrate on a subject
and ignore
other things.
Although I agree that women are superior to men I can't
imagine how
the world will develop. Will it just be like today but with
as many
women in positions of power as men are now and more men
will have the
lowly jobs .... or will society grant women some
institutionalised
power? My guess is the former.
peter
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:20:48 GMT
From: Peter Saxton
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID: <32377e90.104566797@post.demon.co.uk>
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:45:03 -0400, Laura wrote:
>Here's some scat-logic for literal types:
>
>Everything that women produce is shit
>Women produce males
>Therefore males are shit! ;)
>
Don't women produce females, too?
Peter Saxton, from London
peter@psaxton.demon.co.uk
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:32:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID: <32382CF6.4F3A@tiac.net>
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Jonnan West wrote:
> The Terror was noted for the female involvement,
> which may -imply- that there was little female
involvement in the
> protestant catholic wars and the accusations during
the inquisition.
Patricia Writes:
Women did not design the manifestos or the systems to
impose these
regimes. God, here we go with the damned if we do damned if
we don't
stuff. Of course women were involved...we live under the
same
patriarchal system...we follow the boys or die, many of us
die. We
don't know of our own power unless we are fortunate enought
to find our
own herstory buried so well by the Patriarchy. Hitler was
not a woman
nor were the chief bosses of his regime women. That women
exist under a
patriarchal system as best they can is understandable. and
the 9
million women who were killed during the European witch
hunts....were a
good example for those women to shut up and follow the
boys...
jonnan writes:
> Millions is about three orders of magnitude below
Billions,
Patrricia replies:
millions to one research university...millions time
hundreds of
Research Universities who received such funding is billions
and I really
am growing tired of you not even attempting to listen.
PATRICIA
>
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 05:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: Delay In Messages
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
I've gotten no mail from FS since yesterday and I know some
folks have posted, including myself. Is the problem with
the List or my
ISP? If anyone is getting FS messages, I would be very
grateful if you
would e-mail me and let me know.
Thank you,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:37:29 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID: <32382E39.16F4@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jonnan West wrote:
> Had she said 'military', Department of Defense, or
even 'Those
> asses at the Pentagon' I would've agreed
wholeheartedly. But she was
> speaking exclusively of Nasa and her context applied
it even more
> narrowly towards exploratory and research programs as
if they were
> costing us billions.
Patricia wrote:
I never mentioned NASA..you did. Our research money did not
come from
NASA...or the Military Budget....just like a man putting
his words in my
mouth and then attacking me for using them.
Patricia
the subject "help".
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:42:53 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Good&Bad Will
Message-ID: <32382F7D.70B3@tiac.net>
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good idea centrifuge them....
Patricia
Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
>
> jet wrote:
> >
> > I've read something about this, and also have
seen it made fun of in
> > several movies about making babies ("9 Months" is
one that comes to
> > mind). I believe the theory is: if a male eats
certain foods for
> > a period of time before he fertilizes a woman, he
will produce more of
> > the sperm with either an x or a y chromosome. So,
for instance, if he
> > eats more meat, he will produce more y
chromosomes or if he eats mroe
> > vegies or maybe chichen, he will produce more x
chromosomes.
>
> Just a little humor here, but true humor. Male fighter
pilots tend to
> produce girls. This is apparently because of the
G-forces they go
> through. My husband jokes that I'm going to put him
through a
> centrafuge if we ever decide to get down to the
business of conceiving
> a child.
>
> Dee-Ann
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:54:08 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-ID: <32383220.6922@tiac.net>
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This feels like a plea for attention...oh please Jonnan
stay..I don't
play that game anymore and will not be manipulated into it
at this late
stage. Stay if you really want to learn...I certainly have
spent much
time getting information to help you understand. If you
just want to be
the winner of a debate...lurk..delurk..whatever. You seem
to be under
the impression that the books have told you everything. but
the books
are written under a patriarchal system that only rewards
those who
uphold the system...you seem to have difficulty
understanding that basic
premise.
Patricia
(deleted alot)
> Jonnan West wrote:
>
>
> > At any rate, it's not a level of decorum I can
trust myself -to-
> > hold to, and I therefore need a (consensus is not
quite the right term,
> > but I can't think of anything better) from those
with a long-term
> > understanding of the nature of debate on this
mailing list.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:25:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Micah L. Martin"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Life-sapping analysis
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Laura Goodwin wrote:
> There is zero point value in these life-sapping point
by point analyses of
> "opinions".
I hope you don't think I did this as a sort of game, and
knew a better way
of doing things but chose this one. Life-sapping point by
point analysis
is what I spent years in graduate school learning to do,
and it happens
more or less automatically with me if someone says "X,
therefore Y." I
tend to take that as a hint that the person is proposing
that we engage in
a little game of life-sapping analysis--it is how I was
raised.
> It's starting to look like a disruptive tactic, and we
are wise to such
> tricks, OK?
It isn't a tactic or a trick, it's me. That is who I *am*,
at least on the
pure ego level. Believe it or not, I *can* also work on the
level of
speaking from the heart, and of how I feel; and we would
probably get on
better on that level than we have with life-sapping
analysis.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:22:45 +0100
From: robert and fiona forsythe
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Advise please
Message-ID:
Jonnan
you're fine by us,
just perhaps see if you can shorten things down sometime
(coming from
us!). we are not worried about bandwidth but we simply end
up skimming
and so may miss some gem.
I
--
fiona and robert forsythe
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:40:13 -0800
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: God/Goddess Worship
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Jet wrote-
>
>Thank you for the beautiful and haunting poem (to
Patricia)...it is one of
>my >favorites as well.
I have never heard that one before and it moved me so much,
I printed it
out and will share it at my Womens Cirle tonight. (We meet
every month on
the New Moon.)
>Here is a class example of a woman who was squashed by
>patriarchy... I can understand and this is why I
subscribe to this list
>and I am trying to raise my daughter with the high
ideals I see here.
>I do not want her to have to struggle as we do and hope
that by the time
>she is an adult, it will be more equal or at the very
least much more
>supportive of women. If not, perhaps she will be
another of the catalysts.
I have two teenage sons. Teaching them the concepts of FS
has not been
easy. Society teaches them something different (men have
"the" power)... it
is a struggle for them to choose not to buy into it.
As a girl, I would have chosen FS was an option instead of
resign to
females finding a man and cleaving (in submission) to him.
Ack!!! Thank
Goddess I grew up and discovered My own truths! I'd hate to
have died early
and ignorant... never having known the pleasure of My "own"
power!
Leather
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br
/>
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:04:19 -0800
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Is all S&M sexual?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Peter wrote...
>
>All I can say is that many times I have done things for
women when I
>knew that it would not lead to sex and sometimes I have
done things
>for women and felt very happy about doing them even
though the woman
>would not know that I had done them and so I could not
even be
>rewarded by them woman looking favourably towards me.
Paint my house!
Leather
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/>
leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
\ /
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the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:36:34 -0400
From: Laura Goodwin
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com,
femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Take this to email, why not? (Re: Central vs.
Peripheral)
Message-Id:
<2.2.32.19960912153634.006aad6c@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:19 PM 9/11/96 -0400, Micah L. Martin wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Jonnan West wrote:
...and wrote and wrote and wrote...
This is the femsupremacy list. Try to stay on topic.
Dee-Ann?
Laura Goodwin
"All forms of fanaticism are suspect. The humane society
of the future, which we now build, will appreciate
diversity
and reward tolerant behavior."
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:39:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Micah L. Martin"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:
> > One thing I will do is take people literally,
rather than attempting to
> > guess what they really meant. No doubt this can
be irritating, but
> > characterizing it as blatant misrepresentation I
don't buy.
> This is an amusing little game you love to play,
ToyLet/Micah. It, as
> always, is childish and very quickly becomes tiresome.
"ToyLet Micah?"
It's not a game, it's the way I am. You are at liberty not
to like me,
while I am not at liberty to be someone else, whom you
would like better.
> You're supposed to actually think.
But I do. People think in different ways, and have been
educated in
different ways. In any case, not thinking needs to be
distinguished from
not agreeing.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Micah L. Martin"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Egalitarian vs Femsupremacy
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Peter Saxton wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:45:03 -0400, Laura wrote:
> >Here's some scat-logic for literal types:
> >Everything that women produce is shit
> >Women produce males
> >Therefore males are shit! ;)
> Don't women produce females, too?
That's a _reductio_, Peter. It's how I got into trouble in
the first
place.
the subject "help".
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End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #15
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