femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 191

Today's Topics:
Re: Stretching Limits:
Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Re: Greetings
A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Re: Working for Her
Re: Dungeons for rent?
Just saw 12 Monkeys on PPV
Re: Greetings

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:24:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Stretching Limits:
Message-Id: <199608271224.FAA11253@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kalika wrote:

> I feel that it is solidly the responsibility of the male, as the
> representative of the male principle, to accede to the wishes / desires of
> the Goddess. In doing so, he may, if it has been previously agreed to, or if
> this is an occasion of "open" dialog ... he may then offer to Her, his
> readiness to assist Her in the expansion of Her "horizons". However, if this
> has not been agreed to previously, and it is not now a time of open dialog /
> discussion, then he must wait until such a time occurs. At no time, should
> he make even the *slightest* effort to "push" his desires / wishes, on Her.
>
> If She allows him to make this offering, but She declines for whatever
> reason (an no reason need be given IMHO), the matter is *closed* until the
> next scheduled "dialog". Certainly, a Goddess may find pleasure in knowing
> that Her male wishes to "extend" himself in order to please / pleasure Her
> ... and this knowledge, when properly offered, can in and of itself, be a
> source of pleasure for Her, even if She has no interest in such an
> expansion, at this time.
>
> IMHO, males need to learn patience ... they need to learn to subdue the male
> ego and focus on the wishes of the Goddess, ... to remain quiet ... to
> observe and learn ... to accept deference to Her as a natural occurance.
> (This could also, sometimes, be taken to apply to males on this List .)
>
> In so doing, he will grow both in his ability to please Her, and also his
> opportunity to experience the joy, the bliss that can occur when the ego is
> made quiet and the true essence of the male principle then comes forth. This
> is an occasion of joy for all ... it is, really, a natural thing.

Well, I'm not going to go off over your early use of 'always', and I most
certainly agree that most people, probably males above all, should learn
a lot more patience. But I may take some exception with the last sentence,
first quoted paragraph, "At no time should he make the *slightest* effort
to push his desires on Her."

Now, I note also the references to dialogs in which the male can express
himself, presumably in terms of his feelings, needs, and desires, and I do
see where these might be sufficient to allay my concerns. It'd all depend
on the frequency and nature of the dialogs, and how much communication was
allowed on the part of the male....

If they're infrequent enough, then I personally wouldn't think it improper
for him to bring something to the Lady's attention. 'Pushing' his wishes
on her, perhaps, but hopefully not in a demanding way. For instance....
He might be getting stressed out, perhaps from a need for a little more af-
fection, perhaps a need for the catharsis of some pain. If it's been too
long since a period of open communication in which he was formally allowed
to bring such matters up, I wouldn't think it improper for him to subtly
bring it to his Lady's attention - she may be Goddess, but she's probably
not omniscient.

The key, imo, is patience - not expecting instant gratification, and not
bringing it up at the first pangs of longing. Acceding to her will is all
good and fine, yes; indeed, I'd think that he should be going out of his
way to please her, before bringing something up. But it's still a
relationship, one in which both (or all) party's needs must be met, else
the relationship is likely to eventually self-destruct.

Again, I'm not sure that what Kalika wrote, and meant, is contrary to what
I just did; just a matter of slightly differing emphasis.

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:24:46 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID:

FE>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
FE>stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand to a dynamic worl
FE>with political power.
FE>Please forward opinions and ideas.

FE>_Xantippe Movement_.

I have two daughters, aged 23 & 26, who are both
powerful, well-educated and devout feminists.

Each has devoted her professional life to adressing
the problems of powerlessness in less fortunate
women's lives.

So, we are on our way!

B
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 96 09:42:11 EDT
From: Marissa <103267.1522@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <960827134211_103267.1522_IHH41-1@CompuServe.COM>

Xantippe writes:

>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand to a dynamic
worldwide movement
with political power.
Please forward opinions and ideas.

_Xantippe Movement_<<br />
Actually, what younger generation Women require are positive Female role models
that demonstrate what is possible in their lives both personally and
professionally. Then and only then may FS grow to its full potential.

I grew up with a mother who was a university professor who also demonstrated
through her support of my actions that anything I wished to try for was
obtainable. Additionally, she was extremely comfortable and confident in her
sexuality and self-image. We shared many happy hours discussing my
hopes/desires/fears for the future as well as a number of conversation about how
better things might be if Women were viewed differently.

It was also obvious now in retrospect that my household was a microcosm of FS in
action as Mom was the breadwinner and Dad deferred to her on most key issues. He
also adored and worshipped her. From this setting I am sure I formulated my
opinions and then added to them relative to FS. I only hope that if and when
someday I have a Daughter, I can be half as successful with her as Mom was with
me.

Marissa

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:32:41 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com
To: xantippe@cd-online.nl
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-Id: <1996827103422341@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
>
>Only when the younger generation*girls* are
>stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand to a dynamic
worldwide movement
>with political power.
>Please forward opinions and ideas.
>
>_Xantippe Movement_.

Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe movement" person, and why
the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a fig for "her" opinion?

Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I assume there is
at least one actual person behind this so-called movement, and I'd
ordinarily like to know who the hell it is, but in this case I have been
given no good reason. If "xantippe movement"'s expressed views were at
least fresh, either heartfelt or interesting or both, then maybe I'd be
intrigued, but the way it stands, it looks like some lonely sub trying to
defraud femdom women into corresponding via email.

As for the idea of uniting femdoms and female supremacists worldwide, lots
of us are already working on it and have been for decades, and no Janie-
come-lately who doesn't know her history and who has no name is going to
improve much on the good work that's already been done.



Laura Goodwin

Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
thing I know how to fast!

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:32:54 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Message-ID:

FE>We are looking for LADIES/GIRLS for the promotion,set up,and management of a
FE>inwhere the later global FS is imitated.
FE>Please respond.
FE>No submales..unless intended to sponsor
FE>support,or contribute.

FE>_Xantippe Movement_.

May I have more information, please?
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:50:19 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <32236D9B.1A12@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
Patricia...
introduction would have been nice

lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
> >
> >Only when the younger generation*girls* are
> >stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand to a dynamic
> worldwide movement
> >with political power.
> >Please forward opinions and ideas.
> >
> >_Xantippe Movement_.
>
> Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe movement" person, and why
> the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a fig for "her" opinion?
>
> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I assume there is
> at least one actual person behind this so-called movement, and I'd
> ordinarily like to know who the hell it is, but in this case I have been
> given no good reason. If "xantippe movement"'s expressed views were at
> least fresh, either heartfelt or interesting or both, then maybe I'd be
> intrigued, but the way it stands, it looks like some lonely sub trying to
> defraud femdom women into corresponding via email.
>
> As for the idea of uniting femdoms and female supremacists worldwide, lots
> of us are already working on it and have been for decades, and no Janie-
> come-lately who doesn't know her history and who has no name is going to
> improve much on the good work that's already been done.
>
> Laura Goodwin
>
> Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
> all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
> thing I know how to fast!
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:51:37 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FS-minicommunities depend on LADIES effords
Message-ID: <32236DE9.7D42@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

besides...i am neither a lady or a girl...nor do I aspire to be one....
Patricia

sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:
>
> FE>We are looking for LADIES/GIRLS for the promotion,set up,and management of a
> FE>inwhere the later global FS is imitated.
> FE>Please respond.
> FE>No submales..unless intended to sponsor
> FE>support,or contribute.
>
> FE>_Xantippe Movement_.
>
> May I have more information, please?
> CybErotiComm Online
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-Id: <199608271934.MAA19452@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Noble Patricia wrote:
> I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
> Patricia...
> introduction would have been nice

> lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe movement" person, and why
> > the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a fig for "her" opinion?

This Xantippe person appears to be a male, 52 years old, over in Europe,
with a persecution complex and plans to come to the USA, who among other
things is looking for some generous soul to house him in the name of
furthering female supremacy. :)

Aren't you glad you asked for an introduction? Note: This information
culled from xantippe's -public- postings on alt.sex.femdom.

> > Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...

*chuckle* Yep. I thought -I- was pretty arrogant, but.... ;-)

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:14:52 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <3223816C.5A4C@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

good information and sleuthing.....good job
Patricia

Chase Vogelsberg wrote:

>
> This Xantippe person appears to be a male, 52 years old, over in Europe,
> with a persecution complex and plans to come to the USA, who among other
> things is looking for some generous soul to house him in the name of
> furthering female supremacy. :)
>
> Aren't you glad you asked for an introduction? Note: This information
> culled from xantippe's -public- postings on alt.sex.femdom.
>
> > > Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...
>
> *chuckle* Yep. I thought -I- was pretty arrogant, but.... ;-)
>
> -- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
> -- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
> --
> -- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
> -- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
> -- Alexis A Gilliland
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Greetings
Message-Id: <199608272049.NAA26998@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Marissa and eric wrote:
> After awhile lurking and reading the wonderful postings on this list, I
> have decided to come out into the open. My name is Marissa and my husband
> is eric/maid erica. We have been involved in a FS lifestyle for a number
> of years and while I knew there were others like ourselves, I have never
> previously felt comfortable being open about it with others. My thanks to
> all of you for providing the environment in which to do so. We look
> forward to being active participants in the community.

Greetings an' salutations - nice to have you here with us, so to speak. :)
I'm glad to hear you found this a comfortable space / environment; not all
the people here on the list are FS (or even femdom) lifestylers, but I
think you'll find that anyone who isn't at least friendly towards such is
encouraged to leave the list faster than they joined. Then again, you've
been lurking a while, so you already know that. ;)

Blessed be,
Chase

PS: Dee-Anne, see? I -can- post a nice friendly something or other from
time to time.

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:11:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Message-Id: <199608272111.OAA23523@netcom14.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2395

Friends-

I am doing my best to stay lurked until after the US Labor Day weekend and
possibly longer, at least until my new PC is here and up and I finish the
work I am doing at the behest of both my SWMBO and my Wise Woman teacher
(otherwise unnamed). I owe some of you private mail for some very kind
posts you have made, and I've got the guilts about that. But several posts
have prompted me to post before I should.

'Twas I who wrote to the Xantippe 'movement' and invited 'them' to join us
here and on alt.women.supremacy. When I did this, I had all the Usenet
information noted by Lawless and had in mind all the usual reservations
expressed here today and some of my own as well: it's the cops, it's a
19-year-old guy in a turned around baseball cap eating chocolate-chip
cookies, it's a 52-old-guy (which makes him almost =my= age, Heaven
forfend), it's the Religious Reich, etc. It even occurred to me that
_mirabile dictu_ they could be who they say they are!

Usually when I privately write to people to tell them about this List, I
make sure to say something like, 'as long as you don't flame and treat
everyone with respect it's a _safe place_.' It has always been a safe
place for me with my _really_ nutty Dead White Male ideas and less than
Ladylike attitude, for which I am grateful to all of you: can't it also
be that way for someone whose only real difficulty seems to be a less
than perfect command of English and a slight cluelessness about the good
work that has been done before, on & off the Net?

Forgive me all this effrontery from a sincere if bratty little brother,
but I find this reception of Xantippe something less than Sisterly.

Besides, I'd like to hear a _lot_ more about their idea of networked
small FS communities, because, like it or not, the time of tribalism is
upon us, folks. Chou-En-Lai said, "Let a hundred flowers bloom."

Peace to all, and welcome Xantippe, whoever you are :)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Working for Her
Message-Id: <199608272205.PAA29673@netcom14.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3597

Thanks to the wonderfully supple mind of the mysteriously named zbobz and
to our new friends Marissa and eric -to whom Welcome!- for this inspired
thread.

THe resaon I haven't been posting here is because I have been up to my
uhm, eyeballs in Working For Her -several Hers, in fact- these last
several weeks. This in fact has been my life for the last 4 or 5 years,
and it is getting more and more like this all the time.

All of my customers/clients except one are now Women, and all of the
people I work with -they can no longer be called 'subcontractors,' can
they?- on different jobs are Women. It's a loose gaggle -call it a guild
if you wish- of mostly post-corporate entrepreneuses who are very aware of
themselves both as Women and as sovereign in the market and elsewhere in
public life. One is my SWMBO of some years, others are longtime friends,
some are fairly new but trusted acquaintances.

This arrangement now extends to well beyond making a living: my spiritual
life, my money (such as it is) and most other aspects of my life are now
in the hands of Women. My MD is still male- a very enlightened one- but
that's about it.

There are other men in this community here and there, but the whole tone
and spirit of all that we do is manifestly Feminine. Not only are we
post-corporate, but live by the values of cooperation, communication,
trust and a loosely circular view of power relationships. Most of us feel
that we have transcended- and will outlive- the old economic model of
competition, covetousness, exclusion, cynicism and hierarchy. We feel that
we actually understand capital and investment in a way that the good ol'
boys -whom I have deserted- never did. And when we're cookin,' the money
is pretty good, too. :)
but
We are not Utopia: Earlier this summer I took a real economic hit because
I strayed back into the old way of thinking about business relationships,
and it will take me a year or two at least to dig out of that little hole.
But this time I have the Big Sisters, the guild, the Tribe, by whatever
name, there to help me and wish me well, and to keep me busy. :)

The Women I work with, and their men, come in all flavors- some are 'in
the Life' with crops and needles, some are a rich French Vanilla; some are
as witchy as any of you, some are Christians; the ages range from late 20s
to about 60, 3 are straight, the majority are richly bi, a strong minority
are joyous, righteous dykes. All are Feminists of one stripe or another
and all have a rich sense of both personal and collective Womanhood. All
have a story of really hard times and have definitely paid their dues. In
other words, they're a lot like You. :) Whatever my current woes, in this
Sisterscape that surrounds me I am richly blessed.

Thanks to Marissa for giving us the 'look and feel' of a Womanshaped
workplace: It's a much saner, calmer place, and my impression is that
males who work for Women are far more realized as individuals and in
their creative echoes than those still trapped in the boys' club. Or so
it is with me (with or without the toenail polish- sounds yummy, I admit).

Free at last,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:10:45 -0800
From: leather@zephyr.net (leather)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Dungeons for rent?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

jwaren wrote:

>does anyone know if it is possible to rent a room or whatever equipped as a
>dungeon with all the basics to set the proper mood ? To make this even more
>difficult might there be something of this nature located in the midwest ?

I don't know if you can access this publication in the midwest... but there
are a few mags out here that carry ads for this stuff. Check out T&A Times
and Erotica. You also might have some success in the current publication of
"The Black Book", published by Amador Communications, PO Box 31155, San
Fransisco, CA 94131-0155, Phone # (415) 282-7368... about $12-15.

Gotta run... good to see you on this supreme list!

fondly,
Leather

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<br />
leather@zephyr.net Leather Me Adult Erotic Leather Toys
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the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:28:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Just saw 12 Monkeys on PPV
Message-Id: <1996827223021341@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I just saw the movie *12 Monkeys* (finally) and thought it totally rocked.
My kids didn't understand the ending...I said it's a happy ending, because
the lady scientist there on the plane means that they are wise to the bad
guys and will stop them, saving humanity. I believe it's possible that
even the Bruce Willis character can be saved, why not? They go back in
time, don't they? :)

I noticed lately lots of cool female characters in film. All the women in
*Pulp Fiction* weren't your usual molls. We are talking interesting women
characters who show intelligence and grit. They have adventurous lives.
The Doctor played by Madeline Stowe in *12 Monkeys* is an example.



Laura Goodwin

Siddartha could wait, think and fast. I can do
all that plus sing, dance, act and write. Good
thing I know how to fast!

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:33:23 -0700 (PDT)

Marissa wrote:
>
> After awhile lurking and reading the wonderful postings on this list, I have
> decided to come out into the open. My name is Marissa and my husband's name is
> eric/maid erica. We have been involved in a FS lifestyle for a number of years
> and while I knew there were others like ourselves, I have never previously felt
> comfortable being open about it with others. My thanks to all of you for
> providing the environment in which to do so. We look forward to being active
> participants in the community.

I'm so glad that you feel this list is a comfy place. :) Welcome!

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #191
************************************************

From - Fri Aug 30 19:08:41 1996
------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 192

Today's Topics:
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
get your information correct TONY
Xantippe gets boofed up
Re: get your information correct TONY
Re: Xantippe gets boofed up
empusae has one of THOSE addresses
this one went wrong place too
Re: Working for Her
Re: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Re: this one went wrong place too
Re: get your information correct TONY
Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:39:51 -0700
You wrote:
>
>I agree with Laura....feels like junk mail to me...
>Patricia...
>introduction would have been nice
>
>lalaura@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>> On 08/27/96 14:07:07 you wrote:
>> >
>> >Only when the younger generation*girls* are
>> >stimulated to Female Superiority, FS wil be able to expand to a
dynamic
>> worldwide movement
>> >with political power.
>> >Please forward opinions and ideas.
>> >
>> >_Xantippe Movement_.
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me...who is this "xantippe movement" person,
and why
>> the hell should any true femdoms give a feather or a fig for "her"
opinion?
>>
>> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I assume
there is

Patricia:

Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty arrogant shit")
constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the spirit and the
by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a flame, in that (1)
you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant" without making a
good-faith effort at understanding what her/his motives and underlying
messages were; (2) you added fuel to the rhetorical fire by further
labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically slapping the poster in the
face before you learned anything about her/his ideas. (All in all,
these sound like typically male "Neanderthal" tactics, to me!) And to
think that a few months ago, I was berated summarily by many of the
regular contributors to this group (including, I believe, yourself) for
using somewhat milder language in response to what I still contend were
pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or unwitting.

Also, how do you know that these posts from "xantippe" are aimed at
"femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they are simply aimed at
proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who have nothing to do
with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it on the giving or
receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly level at these posts
is that they are too brief and the English is not perfect. Otherwise,
they are interesting and provocative, and I sincerely wish the poster
would further elucidate her/his ideas about female supremacy, even if
she/he is having a little trouble communicating in perfect English (we
all make mistakes from time to time).

Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!

Tony

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:41:58 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: get your information correct TONY
Message-ID: <32240656.7BE9@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

excuse me Tony..i don't know what your beef against me is but.....I did
not write the statement: pretty arrogant shit....what is your
problem....I did not deserve the first crap you gave me...and I
certainly don't deserve this one....It was Laura who wrote the
original..."> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
movement." If you would thoughtfully read your email instead of blindly
thrashing about for something I might have done wrong..so you can attack
me again...you would have known that.

You still have never apologized to me for the first one, and you will
probably never apologize for this one either. You are continually an
abuser...and this is the final straw.
I am asking you to get off of this list, or I will. You are negative,
destructive and looking for a woman to abuse...I will not let you have
at me twice. In the real world once would have thrown you out on your
ass. But even in this world I do not deserve and will not allow myself
to be a victim of your misplaced,ignorant, testosterone driven, blind
wrath.

So Laura he's talking about what you said here, and I assume you have
some feelings about his attack on you as well......

As to the continuation of these advertisements by X...this is a
community of people first. Throwing wild advertisements here is
inappropriate without first introducing yourself and having some sense
of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a house on a country
lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up finding someone
has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while you slept...almost
like an invasion.
Patricia

Tony wrote:

> >>
> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I assume
> there is
>
> Patricia:
>
> Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty arrogant shit")
> constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the spirit and the
> by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a flame, in that (1)
> you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant" without making a
> good-faith effort at understanding what her/his motives and underlying
> messages were; (2) you added fuel to the rhetorical fire by further
> labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically slapping the poster in the
> face before you learned anything about her/his ideas. (All in all,
> these sound like typically male "Neanderthal" tactics, to me!) And to
> think that a few months ago, I was berated summarily by many of the
> regular contributors to this group (including, I believe, yourself) for
> using somewhat milder language in response to what I still contend were
> pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or unwitting.
>
> Also, how do you know that these posts from "xantippe" are aimed at
> "femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they are simply aimed at
> proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who have nothing to do
> with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it on the giving or
> receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly level at these posts
> is that they are too brief and the English is not perfect. Otherwise,
> they are interesting and provocative, and I sincerely wish the poster
> would further elucidate her/his ideas about female supremacy, even if
> she/he is having a little trouble communicating in perfect English (we
> all make mistakes from time to time).
>
> Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!
>
> Tony
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
Message-Id: <199608280711.AAA16821@davinci.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Non original-primary thinking will not lead to anything. Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.

_Xantippe MOVEMENT_

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:58:26 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: get your information correct TONY
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I vote for Patricia to remain and Tony to leave.
Patricia, please do us a favor and just delete his postings when you see
they've arrived.
peter
>
>
>excuse me Tony..i don't know what your beef against me is but.....I did
>not write the statement: pretty arrogant shit....what is your
>problem....I did not deserve the first crap you gave me...and I
>certainly don't deserve this one....It was Laura who wrote the
>original..."> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn
>movement." If you would thoughtfully read your email instead of blindly
>thrashing about for something I might have done wrong..so you can attack
>me again...you would have known that.
>
>You still have never apologized to me for the first one, and you will
>probably never apologize for this one either. You are continually an
>abuser...and this is the final straw.
>I am asking you to get off of this list, or I will. You are negative,
>destructive and looking for a woman to abuse...I will not let you have
>at me twice. In the real world once would have thrown you out on your
>ass. But even in this world I do not deserve and will not allow myself
>to be a victim of your misplaced,ignorant, testosterone driven, blind
>wrath.
>
>So Laura he's talking about what you said here, and I assume you have
>some feelings about his attack on you as well......
>
>As to the continuation of these advertisements by X...this is a
>community of people first. Throwing wild advertisements here is
>inappropriate without first introducing yourself and having some sense
>of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a house on a country
>lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up finding someone
>has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while you slept...almost
>like an invasion.
>Patricia
>
>Tony wrote:
>
>> >>
>> >> Pretty arrogant shit, posing as a whole damn movement...I assume
>> there is
>>
>> Patricia:
>>
>> Doesn't what you just said above (i.e., "[P]retty arrogant shit")
>> constitute a flame? And isn't flaming against the spirit and the
>> by-rules of this mailing list? I believe it is a flame, in that (1)
>> you labelled the poster's message as "arrogant" without making a
>> good-faith effort at understanding what her/his motives and underlying
>> messages were; (2) you added fuel to the rhetorical fire by further
>> labelling these posts "shit", metaphorically slapping the poster in the
>> face before you learned anything about her/his ideas. (All in all,
>> these sound like typically male "Neanderthal" tactics, to me!) And to
>> think that a few months ago, I was berated summarily by many of the
>> regular contributors to this group (including, I believe, yourself) for
>> using somewhat milder language in response to what I still contend were
>> pretty outrageous falsehoods, be they witting or unwitting.
>>
>> Also, how do you know that these posts from "xantippe" are aimed at
>> "femdoms"? That is a big assumption. Maybe they are simply aimed at
>> proponents of female supremacy, like myself, who have nothing to do
>> with classic BDSM, and who have never practiced it on the giving or
>> receiving end. The only criticism I can rightly level at these posts
>> is that they are too brief and the English is not perfect. Otherwise,
>> they are interesting and provocative, and I sincerely wish the poster
>> would further elucidate her/his ideas about female supremacy, even if
>> she/he is having a little trouble communicating in perfect English (we
>> all make mistakes from time to time).
>>
>> Come on, xantippe, let's hear more!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________
>> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
>> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
>


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:24:22 +0000
From: "Empusae"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Xantippe gets boofed up
Message-Id: <199608281125.LAA170611@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
> To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
> Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com

> Non original-primary thinking will not lead to anything. Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.
>
> _Xantippe MOVEMENT_


>From the looks of the postings, you certainly have stirred up alot of
non-original primary thinking...like "I dont like you and what you
say, so I am going to take my toys and go home.

Empusae


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:00:06 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-ID: <32245EF6.1CE2@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

and what the Hera does non-original primary thinking mean. If it is not
original...it is a copy of something else. If it is primary ...like the
primary numbers it is unique onto itself and cannot be divided by any
other number but itself...
so I guess we are being accused of not original, original
thinking....heavy....my mere female brain reels
is it related to snakes and original sin?

"The time has come,"
the Walrus said, "To talk of many things:
of shoes,
and ships,
and sealing wax,
of cabbages and kings,
and why the sea is boiling hot,
and whether pigs have wings."
from: Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Patricia

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:01:41 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: this one went wrong place too
Message-ID: <32245F55.6D0F@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

what is happening to this list. it is deteriorating quickly.
if this person would have introduced themselves instead of flooding my
mail box with some message for ladies and girls....
who is taking their toys and going home...my message to tony had nothing
to do with the X stuff...if this is going to become the femsupremacy
place ads for whatever you want list....it is not what I joined for.

I joined to dialogue with intelligent women and men and not be drowned
in ads from strangers.
Patricia

Empusae wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:11:53 +0200
> > To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> > From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
> > Subject: Xantippe gets boofed up
> > Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
>
> > Non original-primary thinking will not lead to anything. Thank God it has creative people among *like cs*.
> >
> > _Xantippe MOVEMENT_
>
> >From the looks of the postings, you certainly have stirred up alot of
> non-original primary thinking...like "I dont like you and what you
> say, so I am going to take my toys and go home.
>
> Empusae

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:34:59 -0400
From: Oldlow@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Working for Her
Message-ID: <960828083458_395871825@emout10.mail.aol.com>

The correspondence about working for her struck a deep chord in my memory.
For some years I ran my own small consultancy to Computer Graphics firms.
About eight years ago, I worked for one such which was quite a substantial
competitor in the commercial typesetting business. The CEO was a woman in her
forties named Martha. Gradually, she spent more and more time with me. Our
relationship lasted about two years. In the beginning, our awareness of the
unspoken nature of it excited us both, I think. There never was an overt
sexual component, but I had a deeply satisfying time of it, and, I like to
think she did, too.
Within months, I found myself accepting a vice-presidency in her company, but
Martha also allowed me to assume the duties of a private secretary. We flew
back and forth between Boston and one or another European city about once a
month. Martha spoke no European languages. I do, so I think I was as useful
arranging salon appointments as sales represeentative meetings. I could tell
when she was tiring, and would usualy arrange a cancellable appointment with
a beauty salon for late in the afternoon. She loved having facials. So did I,
but I never infringed on my position by asking to join her at the same salon.
Nevertheless, she recognized this and allowed me the time for my own small
pleasures, sometimes sending me off for a massage or facial she had already
paid for.
I did more and more for her. We shopped together. I hemmed and made small
alterations to her new purchases in my hotel room at night.
I'm sure she realized quite soon that I wore women's underwear as a matter of
habit, so, once when we were pressed for time in Hamburg, I offered to wash
some of her necessaries along with my own. After that, it was an unspoken
agreement. I took care of both our wardrobes, always going to her room in the
evening when I knew she wasn't there to collect the wash and to leave a
freshly-laundered and folded nightgown on her bed after I'd turned it down. I
helped with makeup, with long conferences on dressing, and with small details
of her person. More than once I gave her a pedicure of an evening when there
had been no time for a salon and there was an early flight in the morning. I
loved to see her glorying in her healthy womanhood. It made deeply happy in
the certainty that I had contributed some small component to her joy of life.
Martha was married, but her husband had another position. He never travelled
with her. Martha was by nature a dominant woman. I adored her and wondered
occasionally about her marriage. Perhaps it was not unlike her relationship
with me which based on unspoken acceptance of feminine dominance and
masculine submission.
During that time, the unacknowleged relationship we were enjoying gave me the
greatest delight. I think my actual work for the company was of a better
quality than I regularly could achieve because my relationship with Martha
was so deeply fulfilling. This suggests to me that as women become ever more
senior in business, as the glass ceiling shatters, there will be many men who
have the opportunity to find an important component of themselves and their
masculinity through submisive-dominant relationships with women at work, and
Isn't that an optimistic notion to treasure in these grey times?
Thank you for the chance to share this, and to recall that happy episode in
my life!
Malcolm

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A Safe Place? Xantippe's welcome.
Message-Id: <199608281348.GAA22589@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Coyote Sings wrote:
> 'Twas I who wrote to the Xantippe 'movement' and invited 'them' to join us
> here and on alt.women.supremacy. When I did this, I had all the Usenet
> information noted by Lawless and had in mind all the usual reservations
> expressed here today and some of my own as well: it's the cops, it's a
> 19-year-old guy in a turned around baseball cap eating chocolate-chip
> cookies, it's a 52-old-guy (which makes him almost =my= age, Heaven
> forfend), it's the Religious Reich, etc. It even occurred to me that
> _mirabile dictu_ they could be who they say they are!
>
> Usually when I privately write to people to tell them about this List, I
> make sure to say something like, 'as long as you don't flame and treat
> everyone with respect it's a _safe place_.' It has always been a safe
> place for me with my _really_ nutty Dead White Male ideas and less than
> Ladylike attitude, for which I am grateful to all of you: can't it also
> be that way for someone whose only real difficulty seems to be a less
> than perfect command of English and a slight cluelessness about the good
> work that has been done before, on & off the Net?

Feh. Coyote, I hadda a feeling someone told him about the list, but....
You actually read all Xantippe's Girlie ads (I won't call them posts) on
asfd an' invited him here, apparently without even thinking to suggest
that he/she/it/them lurk a while and -not- make the kinds of posts he did
on Usenet? I guess I'm not really surprised.... Not at all in a bad
kinda way, mind you - more a matter of you being -too- nice. ;)

> Forgive me all this effrontery from a sincere if bratty little brother,
> but I find this reception of Xantippe something less than Sisterly.

Less than Sisterly? I disagree - even sisters get a little peeved when
they start getting flooded with sloppy little notes basically asking
them to give their names, (email) addresses, and personal information to
someone who doesn't know them, doesn't bother to introduce themselves,
and addresses them in what feels like a patronizing kind of way.

> Besides, I'd like to hear a _lot_ more about their idea of networked
> small FS communities, because, like it or not, the time of tribalism is
> upon us, folks. Chou-En-Lai said, "Let a hundred flowers bloom."

*blink* Wasn't aware we'd heard -any- of his/their ideas - just someone
asking GIRLs and LADYs to contact him, and that males(submales) shouldn't
unless planning to offer financial support for what seems an awful lot
like personal fetishistic fantasies.

-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
-- In your head, no car is fast enough,
-- In your heart, no love is true.
-- Will it ruin all your solitary fancies
-- If I tell you that it isn't only you? -- Emma Bull

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:56:00 +0000
From: "The Night-Hag"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-Id: <199608281357.NAA121922@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:00:06 -0700
> From: Patricia
> Organization: MAINartery
> To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
> Subject: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com

> and what the Hera does non-original primary thinking mean. If it is not
> original...it is a copy of something else. If it is primary ...like the
> primary numbers it is unique onto itself and cannot be divided by any
> other number but itself...
> so I guess we are being accused of not original, original
> thinking....heavy....my mere female brain reels
> is it related to snakes and original sin?
>

I am not sure what you are trying to imply about my email address?
You have sent mulitple copies of this post in private email to me.
I have one of THOSE addresses? It is a simple address so that even
simple people can write to it. Empusae@ibm.net
Implying it is one of _ THOSE addresses_ might give someone the impression
I am from AOL.

Empusae...The Night-Hag

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:13:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: imagery@biddeford.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: this one went wrong place too
Message-Id: <199608281413.KAA02349@mail.biddeford.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:01 AM 8/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>what is happening to this list. it is deteriorating quickly.
>if this person would have introduced themselves instead of flooding my
>mail box with some message for ladies and girls....
>who is taking their toys and going home...my message to tony had nothing
>to do with the X stuff...if this is going to become the femsupremacy
>place ads for whatever you want list....it is not what I joined for.
>
>I joined to dialogue with intelligent women and men and not be drowned
>in ads from strangers.
>Patricia

I am wondering if I am missing some of the posts from here, I haven't
been flooded with ads. I do agree with you; I look forward to intelligent
conversation too.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: get your information correct TONY
Message-Id: <199608281424.HAA25127@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Great - on one hand we've got Tony once again demonstrating an inability
to read clearly when it gives him an opportunity to be catty and get
back at someone he has a grudge against, on the other, a good member of
the list laying down "Either you go or I go" ultimatums.

Sorry, Patricia - while I do understand where you're coming from, in not
wanting to read this list if you're going to have to wade through posts
like Tony's and Xantippe's, I do think it's going overboard, if not out
of line, to make such statements. I'd -much- rather see the two of them
leave then you, or Laura Goodwin, or Coyote -- but so long's its just one
or two such people that offend, you can always delete their posts without
reading. And then wait for social Darwinism to either induce them to
evolve, or to find an environmental niche more compatible with them.

Patricia concluded:
> As to the continuation of these advertisements by X...this is a
> community of people first. Throwing wild advertisements here is
> inappropriate without first introducing yourself and having some sense
> of our community. It feels like going to sleep in a house on a country
> lane that you have worked hard to preserve to wake up finding someone
> has put a flashing neon sign on the quiet road while you slept...almost
> like an invasion.

Exactly - it feels like sleazy advertisements showing up in your kitchen,
or in your Reader's Digest or what not.

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: empusae has one of THOSE addresses
Message-Id: <199608281428.HAA25509@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Night Hag wrote:
> I am not sure what you are trying to imply about my email address?
> You have sent mulitple copies of this post in private email to me.
> I have one of THOSE addresses? It is a simple address so that even
> simple people can write to it. Empusae@ibm.net
> Implying it is one of _ THOSE addresses_ might give someone the
> impression I am from AOL.

She's not implying anything - she's pointing out the fact that you've
one of those 'Reply-To:' lines that make people's automatic replies go
to you instead of the list. *That* is why you get multiple copies -
because they send it to you personally, notice, and resend to the list.

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #192
************************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 194

Today's Topics:
Re: When Malcolm Worked For Her
Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Submissive pushing dominant.
Discarding Women
Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Sandbox play can get pretty gritty
Is it Always Like This?
FS exciting in action
Re: Stretching Limits:
Re: Is it Always Like This?
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Change of topic
Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
books

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: When Malcolm Worked For Her
Message-Id: <199608290242.TAA03641@eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Paul/maidpaula wrote:

> Malcolm- No, thank *you* for relating your experience. Your views on
> female supremacy are enlightening and a pleasure to read.
>
> It sounds like it was a special and successful relationship for you both,
> albeit "unacknowledged". It will be interesting to see how
> employer-employee relations evolve over time as women achieve greater power
> in the business world. I imagine they will change for the better, but I
> also have a small fear that power is just plain corruptable to many,
> regardless of gender. I hope my fear is unfounded, only time will tell of
> course.

I agree - Malcolm's post was pleasant reading; not to mention something I
can relate to. I often do ver' good work, mostly when I'm keyed up over
something interesting or exciting that I'm doing. But, I consistently do
decent work at minimum when I've had a woman boss or coworker whom I liked
and respected - in essence, I did better because I'd be viewing it as doing
better for her. Given that I generally strive for a modicum of profession-
ality, they'd never know -why- I did better, but.... ;)

So far as the fear about power and corruptability, well.... Definately,
both genders are susceptable to being corrupted. But - power corrupts
most those who seek it for its own sake. And in general, I've found
that women tend to acquire or seek power secondarily, almost as a side
effect. They do good work - so they get promoted to management, super-
visory, or executive positions, despite a system often unfavorable to
them. Or they seek power - but because they need it for a reason, be it
to correct problems with school systems, or economic issues, or whatnot.

Those types, female or male, are less likely to be corrupted, or at least
to a lesser extent. An' given that I find them more often on the Goddess'
side of the gender line, I think things may well change for the better as
women continue to gain equal influence, and then more. :)

Regards,
Chase / Lawless

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- The trouble with hell is that the ambient temperature is above the flash
-- point of alcohol. Which means you can't linger over your drink.
-- Alexis A Gilliland

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:53:34 -0500
From: Roland Foy
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Global FS depends on motivated GIRLS
Message-ID: <3225062E.1125@pclink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Good call Dee Ann. You have protected this group from
what was little more than a cyber-stalker (and an
inarticulate one at that).
Roland

Why did god(dess) create men first? You always start with the
proto-type, filled with bugs and imperfections. She did how-
ever create a rather nice finished product on the second try!

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:55:44 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Submissive pushing dominant.
Message-ID: <32269070.B31@crosslink.net>
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Laura wrote:
> I have been pushed a lot more than I have been
> persuaded, and persuasion is better. The problem arises when you have a
> dominant who is not into what you are into.

The trouble with most of us men is, we subtly try to manipulate our
wives and girlfriends into doing what turns us on, and we are not shy
about using manipulative, phony tricks to get what we want. It's bogus,
and wrong. Until we learn to stop being manipulative, and truly
submissive and quite, listening and obeying, we will never achieve true
spiritual calmness and bliss. To be truly submissive to a woman,
without trying to control, manipulate or get off, is an incredibly
wonderful experience. When you get to the point where you obey in
total, even only reaching shangrela at her command, you go into another
dimension that you can't reach by playing the shallow power and get off
games so popular among us men. The deeper sensuality achieved by being
totally consumed with a devotion to another, and to me that means one
special person with whom you share that bond exclusively, is deeply
spiritual and sexual, and absolutely guilt free. Guilt free sex is not
an oxymoron. Some like it better that way of course! OK, if you must,
fantasize if you need that bad boy feeling. It's not really necessary,
but different strokes for different folks.(man, can you have fun with
that one) Bliss? Oh yeah.
Ecstasy? Oh yeah. Calm, yet excited, submissive yet exhilarated, and
strong yet totally weak and enraptured. Sounds like love to me!

Peace and bliss to you my friends,
(For David: the bible, the bible, the bible,
thump thump thump...................NOT!!!)

Love and kisses,

Spirit Wind

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 00:17:01 -0700
From: Spirit Wind
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: Patricia Noble
Subject: Discarding Women
Message-ID: <3226956D.51C2@crosslink.net>
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Patricia wrote:
> what happens to your pure Amazon athelete..when gravity sets
> in...discard her for newer, tighter model...(that sounds familiar), what
> happens when your female athelete gets breast cancer and has to have one
> or both removed to save her life.

Patricia, you always get right down to the core issue don't you. Love
means a person is worthwhile no matter what their sexual value may be.
You are sometimes confrontational and abrasive, but you are always
passionate, sincere, and usually right. I vote for the older, looser,
breast less model, the overweight, less desirable according to the
Madison Avenue, thin adoring society we live in. It's what's on the
inside that counts, as you already know. If a man leaves his lady
because she is sick or disfigured, or getting old, or fat or in any way
less than the ideal, he is one shallow, foolish looser who doesn't
deserve the love of a loyal devoted woman. He can go off in search of a
bimbo to use, and they deserve each other. People are people, she isn't
a rock, a playground, a sex machine, Santa clause, a vending machine to
get out of whatever we WANT, SHE IS A PERSON, WORTHY OF RESPECT AND
LOYALTY.
You are a courageous woman, who always says what she believes, and
dares to be open and vulnerable, and I salute you for that. Your all
right my friend.

Spirit Wind

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:48:16 +0200
From: xantippe@cd-online.nl (xantippe)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id: <199608291148.EAA20975@davinci.renaissoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a chainreaction which is deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because we (xantippe) failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a * xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges and don't kick newcomers before they are even aware of their own*maidentrip imperfections*.

Xantippe Movement.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:04:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: rrlelnd@escape.ca (David Land)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-Id: <199608291304.IAA27746@wpg-01.escape.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well here's another victim statement from old Xantippe. I know where MY
delete key is.
I was wondering about that word, Xantippe. Is
it Greek for drivel?

>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a chainreaction which is
deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because we (xantippe)
failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere
can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking that Xantippe
initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a * xantippe text* on
the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a
urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their own*maidentrip imperfections*.
>
>Xantippe Movement.
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
>
>
>

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:42:40 -0500
From: STALEY
To: "'femsupremacy@renaissoft.com'"
Subject: RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID: <01BB9586.136BAA80@modem03.cadvantage.com>
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please unsubscribe us after all this is not femsupremacy but =
childsupremacy your system finds us to send the childishness let your =
system find us to unsubscribe us
THANK YOU!!!!!! =20

----------
From: David Land[SMTP:rrlelnd@escape.ca]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 1996 3:04 AM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim

Well here's another victim statement from old Xantippe. I know where MY
delete key is.
I was wondering about that word, Xantippe. Is
it Greek for drivel?

>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a chainreaction which is
deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because we (xantippe)
failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in time? We =
overhere
can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking that =
Xantippe
initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a * xantippe text* =
on
the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a
urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges and don't kick
newcomers before they are even aware of their own*maidentrip =
imperfections*.
>
>Xantippe Movement.
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
>For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
>mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
>
>
>

the subject "help".


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the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:45:50 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID:

FE>Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a chainreaction which is deteriorat

FE>Xantippe Movement.

Well, I'd say that if your first posts were inoccuous,
even interesting, I'd say *this* one is pretty pompous
and arrogant!

Thank you, I am no longer interested.
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:56:30 -0700
From: Patricia
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
Message-ID: <3225CBBE.557C@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

please wordwrap
patricia

xantippe wrote:
>
> Laura>Patricia>Tony>Peter>e.o. generated a chainreaction which is deteriorating this list.Do you all let this happen because we (xantippe) failed (as we did) to introduce ourselves properly and in time? We overhere can not believe that.Are you not cheating yourself by thinking that Xantippe initiated the said chainreaction? Feeling invaded by a * xantippe text* on the screen? It can so easy be deleted..are you faking? might be out of a urge need for attention? Just get rid of your old grudges an
>
> Xantippe Movement.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
> For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
> mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:08:09 +0000
From: "The Night-Hag"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sandbox play can get pretty gritty
Message-Id: <199608291613.QAA87235@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: STALEY
> To: "'femsupremacy@renaissoft.com'"
> Subject: RE: Deterioration-.Xantippe gets the blaim
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:42:40 -0500
> Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com

> please unsubscribe us after all this is not femsupremacy but childsupremacy your system finds us to send the childishness let your system find us to unsubscribe us
> THANK YOU!!!!!!
>
Buttons, buttons....PUSH!!!

I have to agree, with watching all the "pushing and shoving" going on,
I am beginning to wonder about the validity of the above statement.
I'm reminded of a child's game, called " Buttons,buttons, who's got the
buttons"..and once you find out..you *push* it.

It takes much more wisdom, maturity, and control to respond to
someone than it does to react to them. Children, because they are
immature, react. However, those who are hoping to reign Supreme
need to learn to take the time to think through what they are saying
and use their wisdom to find an appropriate response.

The Night-Hag

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: 29 Aug 96 14:25:03 EDT
From: Marissa <103267.1522@CompuServe.COM>
To: Femsupremacy
Subject: Is it Always Like This?
Message-ID: <960829182503_103267.1522_IHH87-1@CompuServe.COM>

Gee, an action packed week here on the list. Is it always like this?

Marissa

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: FS exciting in action
Message-Id: <199608291840.LAA23165@cyprus.it.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:03 PM 8/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Tony, it's becoming obvious that you're going to pull an adolescent
>stunt every chance you get. I'm removing and banning you from this
>list.
>
>Dee-Ann
>
----------
Gosh, that was exciting. Female supremacy in action: Women making wise
decisions to