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--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 01:35:51 -0500
From: TashaStar
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <199604280631.CAA17400@anshar.shadow.net
-- [ From: TashaStar * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Why is some slut with a whip more worthy of adoration than
your
ever- lovin' wife?
Laura, I have read your posts on other NG's and was
suprised at this
statement from you. I am not a slut.
I never said you were. I never said Pros were. A slut is a
slut, though
.
There *are* sluts with whips in existance, y'know.
point taken about it not being personal or about
Professionals. :-)
But....I still have a teeny problem with a common concept
that is being
relayed.
firstly, an example:
(A fictional character), Joe Sloven has a weight problem.
Joe is 160 lbs overweight. He has signs of diabetes.
Godiva Choclate
Joe's problem is compulsive overeating of choclate.
He purchases and eats a LOT of Godiva choclate.
Who's fault is Joe's weight problem ??
Who should be blamed ??
Is Godiva a bad company because they continue to advertise
and sell
something that Joe abuses ??
What happens if Joe's weight problem begins to affect his
health
significantly??
The rational person will 99% of the time say, what a stupid
question And then say of course it is Joe's fault.
Well, Joe is a consumer of something that affects a
relationship.
His relationship with his health.
So, ie, a man goes outside his marriage and purchases or
just recives
something that is not good for his relationship.
Who's fault is it ??
Godiva choclate is not the correct answer.
I have expressed my feelings on this subject on other
threads, but here
we go
again: I feel that a marriage is an agreement between a
wife and husband
.
Whatever they agree to is fine with me. If that means
cultivating
outside
relationships, c0ol.
OK< agreed. I am just in disagreement about calling the
woman he goes
outside
with, a slut. I agree with comming clean with the wife. I
think that a
truly submissive man, or one who believes in Fem Supremecy
will respect
*all* women enough, including the wife, to be honest. This
would prove his
feelings in Fem-suprem are sincere.
I bet I am just repeating what you said, with a twist on
who is to blame.
I bet we are in more agreement then most think. :-)
Tasha
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #54
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 56
Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: post message
Re: Do the right thing
Re: Do the right thing
Re: Do the right thing
Re: No Sex Professionals
Have a question...
Fwd: Re: Fwd: post message
Re: Do the right thing
Re: Do the right thing
Domination Principles
Re: Do the right thing
Re: Have a question...
Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: post message
Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 12:52:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: post message
Message-Id:
<199604281952.MAA07461@iceland.it.earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
weaker women can truly dominate bigger, stronger men is by
either:
1) Force of numbers -- two or more average women
overpowering one
average man
2) Actual hypnosis
3) Mind-altering drugs
4) Where the female is actually bigger and stronger, which
is very rare
In most situations, then, true "Female Supremacy" is
impossible because it
relies
purely on the WISHES and DESIRES of the parties; not on
necessity. For such a
scenario to REALLY work requires the normal physical power
equation to be
reversed!
---------------------------
While I certainly agree that if Women were larger than men
it would be a lot
easier for them to assert their will, I suspect there are
other mechanisms
that could work pretty effectively too. Some examples
follow:
(1) Economic coersion: She controls the purse, and he knows
that his
economic well being depends on Her good will.
Consider: Your Lady boss tells you in no uncertain terms
what She expects
and that your (good) job is on the line. She weighs 101
lbs, you weigh 195.
What do you do?
(2) Political coersion: She calls upon the legally
constituted enforcement
agency to enforce Her will.
Consider: The ability of the members of the ruling class to
impose their
will on others regardless of size is legend.
(3) Conditioning: In accordance with well established
principles of
conditioning he has learned to respond to Her in a
compliant manner.
Consider the analogous situation of the lion trainer in a
case with six or
seven lions. He would not even represent a minor challenge
to them
physically, but because of their training he is able to
push them around.
The very same principles can be applied to men.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-Id:
<199604282317.QAA00607@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3269
Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:
I realize my weekness in this regard. That is, a desire to
be dominated. I am
submissive to all women in general (I am regarded as
"chivalrous" and a "nice
guy"). But I know that if I was in a vanilla relationship I
would be
dissatisfied after a while. I make sure to tell someone I
am dating before we
get too serious. I am sad to say, most, so far, think it is
sick, depraved,
perverted, etc. I have been puzzled by this. They don't
like the idea of a
man to do their bidding? Lost a lot of girlfriends... But I
believe honesty
is important.
Because this is a Femsupremacy forum, and not a femdom
forum, I'm
going to try to address this from a Femsuprem perspective.
A lot of women _don't_ like the idea of having a man to do
their
bidding. Some can't get past the fact that their culture
tells them
it should be the other way around. Some are simply anal
retentive and
feel that no one can clean/cook/whatever as well as they
can, and so
don't want someone else trying to do it for them. Some are
simply not
naturally dominant, and not inclined to have to deal with
being in
charge of someone else. Etc.
What's my point? There are many kinds of women out there.
Not all of
them are going to want to be in charge of a relationship.
Among
those, there are some who even if they could overcome the
cultural
"men should be on top" brainwashing STILL wouldn't want to
be in
charge. It's their choice, and their right to make that
choice.
It's good to be honest. It's good that you are sure to tell
them
fairly up front. It saves you both some pain in the end.
It's one
thing to get into a vanilla relationship thinking it's all
you want
and need, and finding out differently later (a horrifying
thing,
though :/). Sabotaging yourself in the beginning by getting
into a
serious vanilla relationship with someone who is not
accepting of your
non-vanilla needs _and_ not willing to allow you an outside
owner/partner seems rather self-defeating to me.
How to make friends who are into Femsupremacy (I discuss
making
friends instead of finding mates because the best way to
find a mate
is to not desperately seek one, but instead to make friends
with
similar interests)? Participate in forums, both online and
real
life, where Femsupremacists share their views. You won't
find a
bounty of places that are only Femsupremacists. You can
also try
overlapping forums, such as Feminist, Female Domination,
etc., where
Femsupremacists may spend their time. Getting a little more
generic,
there are women's groups that accept aid from men, and
there are
general BDSM groups.
Also, if you show respect to women in everything you do,
you may find
Femsupremacists in places you didn't expect, like a cycling
club or a
chess club.
The key is patience and attentiveness. Be attentive to your
own
actions. If you consistantly show that you are respectful
of women, a
woman who desires that quality may perhaps show an interest
in you.
Dee-Ann
Yes, I have tried this. After failing with the regular
romance groups, I have
tried the BDSM ad groups. That has been a dissapointment
also. I am very
reluctant to attend my local support group. I am very
discouraged.
The BDSM ad groups are only as helpful as those who read
them, and the
kind of ad you posted. The majority of personal ads I've
seen on the
various BDSM groups are ones I'd never answer, because they
give
virtually no information about who the person is, what they
expect,
and what a respondant can expect from them. I'm not making
any
judgement calls on what kind of ad you may have posted, as
I didn't
see it. Also, note that a lot of folks either can't or
don't read the
BDSM ad groups.
There's IRC also as a way of making friends. The various
IRC networks
all have a #femdom channel. For more on IRC and #femdom
check out
http://www.renaissoft.com/~dee/femdom/ Please don't post
here asking
to get onto IRC. The web page listed includes links to
various help
resources. If you're going to try this route, READ the
advice
documents on the page. Be courteous on the channel, join in
conversations, and don't sit there asking if anyone will
play with
you. The #femdom channel is much more of a discussion
channel than a
play channel, and isn't a dating service. However, making
friends and
talking to folks may get a woman interested in you. There
are
Femsuprem women who hang out there as well. Don't ask me
who they
are, that's for you to find out through talking to people.
I'm not
aiming all of this at you, Lonely2001...this is for
everyone who might
try out the channel. One of my standard lectures. :)
As far as local groups go, you'll never know unless you
try. And
remember, as with any forum whether real life or on the
net, if you go
once and feel everyone's a jerk you should still go again.
It may not
have been the usual crowd, or maybe everyone was having a
horrible
day.
Dee-Ann
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:28:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-Id: <199604290028.RAA14446@netcom20.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2856
Dee counseled:
How to make friends who are into Femsupremacy (I discuss
making
friends instead of finding mates because the best way to
find a mate
is to not desperately seek one, but instead to make friends
with
similar interests)? Participate in forums, both online and
real
life, where Femsupremacists share their views. You won't
find a
bounty of places that are only Femsupremacists. You can
also try
overlapping forums, such as Feminist, Female Domination,
etc., where
Femsupremacists may spend their time. Getting a little more
generic,
there are women's groups that accept aid from men, and
there are
general BDSM groups.
In Usenet, spend some time reading and contributing to
newsgroups like alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna,
alt.magick.tantra,
alt.religion.wicca, alt.pagan, etc but _not_ with a view to
'picking up' anyone. Do it to learn, and to ask intelligent
questions. Try learning more in groups with soc.* prefixes
where serious (and often moderated) discussion takes place.
Be there, be positive and polite, contribute, and enjoy
with no
ulterior expectations. Think well beyond your own needs and
enjoy the give and take of life where you find it.
Finding 'Mts. Right' is almost always a surprise, not the
result
of a calculated stalk, or so I've been advised. :P
Also, if you show respect to women in everything you do,
you may find
Femsupremacists in places you didn't expect, like a cycling
club or a
chess club.
Affiliating with almost any 'progressive' organziation in
the same
spirit as above is both worthwhile and affords you some
good
company: civil rights and environmental groups, volunteer
groups,
AIDS advocacy, any groups promoting self-sufficiency
(except
militias ;[) or alternative lifestyles (this is anything
from AA
to the SCA), religious groups / congregagtions with a
reputation
for liberal or radical theology (UU, Wiccans, the SMC [ask
Laura]
to name a few [but not my own]), abortion-rights and child
care
advocacy, the local BDSM/TG/leather support groups,
literacy and
immigration volunteers, anything in fact which might
attract
people of character.
The key is patience and attentiveness. Be attentive to your
own
actions. If you consistantly show that you are respectful
of women, a
woman who desires that quality may perhaps show an interest
in you.
Her interests, her priorities, her move, remember.
As I learned in *A: 'Surrender to win.'
And 'Let go, let G
a. od.'
b. oddess.'
c. aia.'
d. anesh.'
Try it. What's to lose? :)
c.s.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:16:55 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: No Sex Professionals
Message-ID: <960428211654_523884356@emout08.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-04-28 12:41:53 EDT, you write:
My confidence in my ability to make the kind of
relationship I need has
received a devastating blow.
I think the Goddess sent me this opportunity and I blew it.
I wonder if she
will give me another chance?
I had a simliar feeling about a possible relationship with
a Domme. I fear I
blew it too.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:17:00 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Have a question...
Message-ID: <960428211658_523884404@emout10.mail.aol.com
I need to know what people think about this...
I believe in female supremacy. I think we might be better
off in the long
run.
But... I don't know how to phrase this... Does that mean I
should let myself
be used by women and I have no say in the matter? I don't
want to get into a
long weepy story here... But it hurts a lot and I don't
know if I should just
accept it. I realize this might be a part of serious female
supremacy.
I'd like to know what others think.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 18:43:00 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Antonio)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: post message
Message-Id: <199604290143.SAA25584@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
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Status: U
weaker women can truly dominate bigger, stronger men is by
either:
1) Force of numbers -- two or more average women
overpowering one
average man
2) Actual hypnosis
3) Mind-altering drugs
4) Where the female is actually bigger and stronger, which
is very rare
In most situations, then, true "Female Supremacy" is
impossible because it
relies
purely on the WISHES and DESIRES of the parties; not on
necessity. For such a
scenario to REALLY work requires the normal physical power
equation to be
reversed!
---------------------------
While I certainly agree that if Women were larger than men
it would be a lot
easier for them to assert their will, I suspect there are
other mechanisms
that could work pretty effectively too. Some examples
follow:
(1) Economic coersion: She controls the purse, and he knows
that his
economic well being depends on Her good will.
Consider: Your Lady boss tells you in no uncertain terms
what She expects
and that your (good) job is on the line. She weighs 101
lbs, you weigh 195.
What do you do?
(2) Political coersion: She calls upon the legally
constituted enforcement
agency to enforce Her will.
Consider: The ability of the members of the ruling class to
impose their
will on others regardless of size is legend.
(3) Conditioning: In accordance with well established
principles of
conditioning he has learned to respond to Her in a
compliant manner.
Consider the analogous situation of the lion trainer in a
case with six or
seven lions. He would not even represent a minor challenge
to them
physically, but because of their training he is able to
push them around.
The very same principles can be applied to men.
the subject "help".
---- End Forwarded Message
Mr. zbobz makes some VERY good points. However, I would
rebut some of what you
said, Bob (may I call you that?) by pointing out that size
and physical
strength are the only IMMUTABLE characteristics people have
(along with
intelligence -- these are inherent characteristics of the
person). Oh yes,
it is true that a person may grow weak with old age; and a
person's intellect
may similarly dim with age (look at Bob Dole!)
However, unlike money and political power (force of arms,
etc.) these qualities
are basically inseperable from the person. That is, if a
big, strong person
is dropped on a desert island with a smaller, weaker
person, guess who will
have first dibs on food, etc.? Unless the smaller, weaker
person is gifted
with a brilliant, resourceful mind, the bigger person will
dominate. (The pair
might even come to the conclusion that the one who is
clearly stronger or more
intelligent SHOULD give the orders.)
Mao said "Political power grows out of the barrel of a
gun." When you speak of
using the duly constituted organs of law enforcement for
coercion (as you
did in point 2 above), the underlying implication was that
the woman (or whomever)
had more clout over these institutions, and thus was able
to leverage them to
coerce the male to do her bidding. Well, where praytell did
she acquire that
clout FROM? Back in the day, women had no power whatsoever
in the legal
system. They also lacked the vote, etc., etc. Needless to
say they had no
power in organized religion (which is capable of a form of
coercion); also,
no power in academia (women weren't even allowed to get a
higher education).
Etc., etc. Well, my question is why was all this true?
Maybe it all ultimately
led back to the fact that women, in very primitive
societies, had very little
power simply because they were "the weaker sex." From that
simple biological
fact flowed a myriad of oppressive rules and regulations,
obstructions and
roadblocks, which kept women in "their place" for literally
thousands of years!
So, if you are a reductionist (as I am), you will realize
that political power
grows out of the barrel of a gun; guns are coercive
instruments which are built
by the ruling class (in our society, males) to enforce
their rules and wishes;
males are in the position to build guns because their
biology (i.e., TESTOSTERONE)
impels them to do it; their hormonal biology also happens
to go hand in hand
with their superior physical size, strength, etc. which
makes it easy to coerce
females, either by actual force, express threats, or simply
the implication that
force will be used. Females simply do not build guns, or
missiles; they do not
start wars (except for Margaret Thatcher and she was a
staunch conservative --
she bought into the 'male' philosophy of power lock, stock,
and barrel, unlike
the vast majority of females.)
Thus, MALE supremacy is the norm. Female supremacy, given
the biological
facts, can only be play-acting (although it may be a lot of
fun!!!)
Antonio
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:01:30 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-ID: <960428230129_102441650@emout12.mail.aol.com
Thanks again for the advice, Dee-Ann. I'll keep it in mind.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:01:25 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-ID: <960428230124_102441583@emout17.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-04-28 19:31:44 EDT, you write:
Also, if you show respect to women in everything you do,
you may find
Femsupremacists in places you didn't expect, like a cycling
club or a
chess club.
The key is patience and attentiveness. Be attentive to your
own
actions. If you consistantly show that you are respectful
of women, a
woman who desires that quality may perhaps show an interest
in you.
Dee-Ann
Thanks for the advice, Dee-Ann.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:24:11 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Domination Principles
Message-Id: <199604290324.UAA25180@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com
Consider the analogous situation of the lion trainer in a
case with
six or seven lions. He would not even represent a minor
challenge to
them physically, but because of their training he is able
to push them
around. The very same principles can be applied to men.
This is certainly true, and I have applied this in my life.
Women can
train men *if they know how* to be compliant, bu the trick
is getting
women organized and prepared to rule.
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:33:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-Id:
<199604290333.UAA29539@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com
Dee-ann wrote:
It's good to be honest. It's good that you are sure to tell
them
fairly up front. It saves you both some pain in the end.
The key is patience and attentiveness. Be attentive to your
own
actions. If you consistantly show that you are respectful
of women, a
woman who desires that quality may perhaps show an interest
in you.
Exactly. I endorse everything Dee-Ann says here.
Femsupremacy: the femdom world has some overlapping
population, as does
the feminist, but femsupremacy is distinctive. In femdom,
the emphasis
can still be on the male, but in femsupremacy the woman is
at the
center.
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:39:18 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Have a question...
Message-Id: <199604290339.UAA02304@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com
Lonely wrote:
I believe in female supremacy. But... Does that mean I
should let
myself be used by women and I have no say in the matter?
NO! I am passionate about this. In a femsupremacy world,
men would not
be used and exploited, but cherished. You *should* have a
say! It's
just that women need men to respect them.
I hate to see the way sub guys are misused by some women.
Still, you
should take care of yourself, and be selective about who
you surrender
to.
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:53:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: post message
Message-Id:
<199604290353.XAA28127@norway.it.earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Antonio,
By the reasoning you espouse lions and tigers would be the
supreme
rulers of the earth since physically they could in the
final analysis always
prevail over puny Women and men. Organized action and
leverage via the
various political and economic mechanisms of society
generally determine the
balance of power in societies. If we're not talking about a
society, but
random unorganized acts by individuals then I'm perfectly
willing to concede
that the average man can bash the average Woman, but
frankly I don't
particularly care since I don't expect to ever live in that
world (I could
of course be wrong about that). In our world (most of the
time, anyway) we
live according to rules set via the leverage of individuals
and groups who
are powerful independently of their physical size or
strength. (In fact I
hazard to say those who survive via their physical strength
generally find
themselves at the bottom of the power pyramid). It is the
nature of humans
to create mechanisms that give them power not naturally in
their possession;
i.e., automobiles, airplanes, bombs ... . Some of these
mechanisms are
social in nature and serve to give particular individuals
and groups power
over others. (We probably have no real disagreement up to
this point).
What mechanisms do Women create to give them this power,
and what
resources of their own do they use to build it? At this
point all is
speculation and supposition, but my personal belief is that
access to birth
control is the watershed event; that is what is new and
different and
potentially changes the balance of power. Women have
actually done pretty
well, considering, upto now inspite of their dependence on
males after child
birth. With the ability to make their own decisions about
child birth, the
balance can only swing in their direction. Then who knows
what they can do?
I don't, neither does anyone else. My impression is that
the pendulum is
already swinging and the furor over right to life has far
more to do with
control that it does any concern with life itself. (I hope
this last
comment doesn't bring a plague of fundamentists out of the
wood work but the
saying of it seems inevitable).
Whether Women will in fact become powerful is an empirical
question not
an a priori one, but I wouldn't bet against them myself.
And personally I'm
on their side.
zbobz
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 23:13:40 -0500
From: TashaStar
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Message-Id: <199604290409.AAA04891@anshar.shadow.net
-- [ From: TashaStar * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Date: Sunday, 28-Apr-96 04:06 AM
From: Laura Goodwin \ Internet: (lalaura@ix.netcom.com)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com \ Internet:
(femsupremacy@renaissoft.
com)
Subject: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
None of the ones I have known personally had sex (as men
understand it) with any male client. Sex was more likely
something done with a 'steady' partner (of either gender).
OK, but how do you define "sex"?
*I* define "sex" as sexual intercourse. (penetration)
*I* define a sexual act as anything that involves
intimate/genital contact
and/or exchange of body fluids.
There are in fact huge numbers of Pro Doms who make it
their business to
sexually gratify their customers in sessions, usually by
masturbating the
guy
while he's in bondage, using vibrators, dildos, etc. or by
ordering/allowing
him to masturbate himself while kneeling or grovelling, and
wearing his
fetish
stuff. Isn't this "sex"?
True. No doubt. Huge numbers of them.
But self masturbation while kneeling or groveling is not
having sex with the
Mistress. Is it "sex" if a guy masturbates by himself in
the bathroom
while reading magazines ?? Nope. Not in *my* book.
Tasha
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #56
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 55
Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Re: Fwd: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Re: Do the right thing
Re: Fwd: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
More about orgasms
RE: No Sex Professionals
Some Personal Observations
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 01:35:26 -0500
From: TashaStar
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Message-Id: <199604280631.CAA17374@anshar.shadow.net
-- [ From: TashaStar * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Tasha wrote:
Am I the only professional on the list?
No. Or not likely, if I remember some past postings.
Well I hope some of them are still around, it is a good
forum.
This is not about sex for me.
This is about power and the chance to influence someones
life.
I am driven by the power rush.
This is more in line with my experience --- friendship
with professional Dominas.
The real quest seems to have been about power.
I truly believe that the drive is different for females
then males.
I said before, Male Doms are usually driven by sex urge and
females driven
by power.
It is appearant in corporate structure sometimes as well.
Successful men enjoy the toys now available to them through
success,that
they
think makes them sexier. (cars, boats, gun collections,
macho stuff like
that)
Where women are usually driven to success by a power
incentive which is
usually the power of being independant. If you sit with
successful women,
they will often tell you they are happy to have achieved,
for the most part
because they now don't *need* a man to take care of them.
Whoever started women thinking that they ever needed a man
to *take care of
them*
did us an injustice and prevented and thawarted femminism
from the inside of
women.
What I mean is that since most women actually strive for
success to become
independant from men, they are fighting an internal belief
that dependance
is the *normal* and average way to be.
That, and the search for _identity_, for a place in which
She can say, 'I am!' with great clarity and confidence.
(Another way of stating the power issue, or so it seems to
me.)
I always knew *I am*. I knew from very young. Developing it
so that I
wasn't an
obnoxious egoist was a big task. I love being female. I
love being able to
stir a man to
an uncomfortable state with a mild gesture. I love
erotisism. Yet, I am
not all that interested in sexual encounters.
If you asked my husband how often we have sex, he would
tell you "not nearly
enough for his likes"
enough play, and he will answer "yes."
hhhmmm, sounds like a condradiction. But it isn't.
He has adjusted to my sexual drive and has free standing
permission to
masturbate
whenever he has the urge or desire. His sex drive is much
higher then mine
(though I am 34 and he is 46)
None of the ones I have known personally had sex (as men
understand it) with any male client. Sex was more likely
something done with a 'steady' partner (of either gender).
Right. Same here.
That said, isn't it possible, likely even, that Dominas,
like the rest of us, fall into a broad array of motives and
tempraments?
Yes !! oh-my-gosh
I didn't discount that there are plenty of Professionals
that will have sex
or do many sexual acts with the clients. I only didn't like
being lumped
as a *group* of "leather teddy wearing sluts" I don't even
think Laura
meant to do this but it sounded that way in the post. Laura
has read posts
by me for probably at least a year or two and she must know
I am not like
that.
Besides, my opnion has never been that because a man goes
outside his
marriage, that the *woman* he spends time with or cheats
with, is a slut. I
feel the man may be doing wrong, and the woman is wrong as
well by allowing
it, but give me a break on the blaming women for the act.
If you are
witness to a murder, and did nothing to prevent it, you are
not a murderer.
It isn't a good thing that you didn't try to stop it, and
maybe you would be
a hero if you did, but how many real heros do you know ?
After having read a lot about Laura's experience and
a fair amount about Tasha's (plus all the posts today), it
seems that they are both reporting from the wide spectrum
of
Real Life, which is where the Domina really lives in the
checkout
line with the rest of us. I don't see so much disagreement
here
here as a wideness of perspective, jarring perhaps, but
inclusive.
Well actually, the hubby does the supermarket deal, so I
wouldn't be seen
too often at a checkout line
I hope I didn't ruin too many peoples illusions.
Nah: confirmed, affirmed, illuminated is more like it.
Told more of the story, another side of the story.
I am always happy to do that :-)
Peace, for real. :)
c.s.
It comes in nice smooth doses you know....the for real
stuff.
Tasha
I'm not going to comment on this bit by bit, but I just
want to say, I am
not an enemy of Laura. On the conrary, I highly respect
her, her postings,
and her opnions.
This dosen't mean I agree with all of them as I don't agree
with many things
or people, a good deal of the time. This by no means makes
any of her
comments or feelings less valid because I don't agree. This
is obviously
the conclusion Laura has reached in her experience and
evaluation and I have
reached other conclusions and opnions.
They might be different, but they are all valid.
Not to worry...I am not mad. :-) I don't think Laura is
attacking *me* I
have explained my position and how I practice. It's the
truth, the whole
truth and nothing but. As long as I am free to do that, I
am happy :-)
Tasha
Ms Goodwin wrote:
Oh, yeah yeah, now every pro dom on the net is going to
feel obligated
to flame me to ashes. Thanks Peter! What a dick you are.
This is a
perfect example of a troublemaking guy trying to turn women
against
each other. * Don't be a sucker for that tactic! * I'm not
an enemy
to Tasha or to any other pro. I have been a pro, I know
what goes on,
I've talked to tens of thousands of pro's customers, I know
what goes
on. I don't feel the need to participate in the
smokescreen, that's
all!
Peter wrote:
When I first saw this, I was greatly offended. But then -
after reading
previous postings from you - I chuckled and thought it was
another example
of
your sense of humor.
But then I became offended again.
After seeing the amount of commentary generated by my first
posting, I
believe
what I said was legitimate. You may not agree with me, but
you don't have
to
get personal. How would you like it if I referred to you as
"another cunt
who
passes on the blame because the entire world doesn't agree
with everything
you
say."
Which brings me to another point. How much respect should a
woman give to
men
when in a dominant-submissive relationship ... or a forum
such as this?
Aren't we allowed to express our feelings? Aren't we
allowed to have
opinions?
What is the situation with your husband, Ms Goodwin? Do you
dismiss him as
a
troublemaking prick any time anything he says leads to a
situation in
which you
are uncomfortable?
I once was in a dialogue with a man who was in a submissive
relationship.
I
asked him about what would happen if he disagreed with his
partner on a
subject. He said that if his partner asked him to get
branded, he would
argue,
protest and fight ... and then he would get branded. But at
least he was
given
an opportunity to comment.
I don't think you're a cunt, Ms Goodwin, but isn't it
better to lead by
example?
And, for what it is worth, I have known two professional
dommes, such as
Tasha
Star.
Both of them did their job without any sex. And both of
them were looking
for
lifelong submissive partners who would be (obviously)
subservient to them
and
provide them with exactly what THEY needed in a traditional
vanilla
relationship.
peter
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com. For a
list
and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to
femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject
"help".
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 03:27:36 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Message-ID: <960428032734_523521672@emout07.mail.aol.com
In a message dated 96-04-27 17:13:50 EDT, you write:
I realize my weekness in this regard. That is, a desire to
be dominated. I
am
submissive to all women in general (I am regarded as
"chivalrous" and a
"nice
guy"). But I know that if I was in a vanilla relationship I
would be
dissatisfied after a while. I make sure to tell someone I
am dating before
we
get too serious. I am sad to say, most, so far, think it is
sick,
depraved,
perverted, etc. I have been puzzled by this. They don't
like the idea of a
man to do their bidding? Lost a lot of girlfriends... But I
believe
honesty
is important.
Honesty is indispensable.
I can tell you after years of being (or trying to be) a
'nice guy' that it's worth it.
If you hang in there, cultivate patience, gentleness with
strength, and an open mind and heart, you won't regret it.
You really won't. You may not get what you want, but you'll
get what you need, with interest.
Peace,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com
Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it
count.
The rest is hidden.
I heartily agree. I will never change the way I am. But
it's still pretty
lonely being without an owner.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:52:37 +1000 (EST)
From: mike Lee
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Message-Id:
<199604280752.RAA14493@oznet02.ozemail.com.au
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tasha,
Power to YOU!
MyKey
At 01:08 PM 26/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
-- [ From: TashaStar * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Hey Peter (and anybody else who's still tuning in), Pro
dominants say=
=20
there
will be no sex to get around anti-prostitution laws. BDSM
is not=20
ideally
non-sexual. Its magical allure has its roots sunk deep in
the sex
drive and
the social urge to connect. =20
=20
Ahem. Some Pro Dominants say there will be no sex, because
there will be
no
sex.
=20
Even with no blow-jobs nor hand jobs, no intercourse, no
oral worship=
=20
nor
"forced" masturbation, no occasion at all for the sub's
sexual relief,
BDSM
is
still *supposed to be* an intense sensual and psychosexual
adventure.=
=20
As a
matter of fact, Pro doms *are* trafficing in orgasms, as
well as=
sexual
fantasy enactments, and anyone who thinks otherwise is
na=EFve. =20
=20
So, I am naive ?? (only about how to get the two dots over
the i)
=20
Here's how it works: Gal runs an ad that says: Ms. Domina
Payne - BDSM=
=20
fantasy
- no sex - no straight. In/Out.=20
Guy calls and says "Hey Ms. Payne, is it true there is no
sex =
involved?
"=20
She
says yes, because how does she know the guy is no cop?
Guy comes anyway, sincerely expecting no sex. If something
about him=
=20
seems
fishy, he won't get any. If she trusts him, or is so
desperate to
build her
business that she's reckless, or has Mafia protection, he
may get a
vibrator
applied to his balls within minutes. :)
=20
I am really amazed that you think you know *my* business
practise so well.
You
were close till the last bits.
=20
There are a few very =E9lite Pros who are so expert or so
famous (or so=
=20
old)
that they seem like royalty, and extreme patience and
courtesy is=20
required,
but they still can be had, if they like you. Or, if you
show enough
cash.
:)
=20
<<snort I realize I am taking this personally, but
then again, I=
haven't
seen another Pro defend this statement. Am I the only
professional on the
list
?
=20
I am not so famous, or so old (34) and though I consider
myself elite,
there is
NO way in hell that I EVER have sex with a client. Even if
I was offered=
a
scandalous amount of money.=20
This is not about sex for me. I make that plain to all
potential clients.=
=20
This is about power and the chance to influence someones
life.
IMO and experience, Male Dominants are driven by sex, and
most female
Dominants
are driven by money or power. I am driven by the power
rush.
=20
In my career as a BDSM activist I have run up against the
idea that=20
*lovers*, that *husbands and wives* who are into S/M don't
have regular=
=20
sex! That a sadomasochist _substitutes_ B/D games for
intercourse,=20
etc., which I hope *everyone* will one day know is a
totally false=20
idea! That's what makes people think we are freaks: we
don't have=20
"normal" sex. Well, this insane notion is being promulgated
by the pro=
=20
doms, who are only too glad to act as spokespeople for the
BDSM=20
community.=20
=20
I can see I will probably not make too many friends on this
list, but=20
scuze
me, I am a lifestyle Domme as well as a professional
Domina, and was
recently
appointed to the board of directors of our local bdsm
support
club because I am a "good spokesperson" for the bdsm
community.
=20
I am glad to do so, yes. I promulgate no fiction about the
lifestyle. (
or
about my services)
=20
I actually have heard, more than once in recent memory,=20
some Pro or another saying that not even any real pain is
involved! =20
WHHHAAAAT!? So save yer money and go to Disneyland instead,
then! I=20
mean, PUH-LeeeeeZe! I have been known to throw things at
the TV on=20
occasions like this, because such *LIES* make _my_ job
harder to do,=20
and my job is hard enough as it is.
=20
Have fun at Disneyland, save money by not throwing things
at the TV. There
is
no doubt Pain involved if S&M is to occur.
Mild-moderate-or severe.
=20
I don't travel in the same circles or hear the same thing
you do since Pro=
=20
friends of mine are of the responsible type and I don't
think any of the
ones=20
I network with or associate with, tell lies about what we
do.
I do not discount that there are plenty "hookers with
whips" that will fit
into
your mold but I am not one, and I know several others like
me. =20
All I ask is that you refrain from grouping all Pro's in
that stereotype.
=20
You have to recognize something. The job of a Professional
Domina,
is often role playing, acting of sorts. This is for the
person who
requests
a non S&M scene. As a professional, my realm is more
comphrehensive then
just
whipping clients into submission and sending them on their
way...this
isn't
how I work.=20
=20
I am frequently needed to be a supportive role to someone
who cross=
dresses
and
does not have S&M desires. Not a *forced* feminization,
but a simple
acceptance of the fact that they enjoy CD'ing.
I am trained in counseling and use it often, sometimes
insidiously to
assist
those who feel abnormal in their desires and seek approval
and acceptance.
In
*these* cases, there would not be pain, but these are not
classified as a
S&M
session. =20
=20
So, guess what ?? A professional Domina isn't always
wearing leather and=
=20
swinging floggers and balancing dildos from her hip.
I hope I didn't ruin too many peoples illusions.
=20
Gosh, this thread is making me furious.
=20
Tasha
=20
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
------- FORWARD, End of original message -------
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
***NEW-NEW-NEW-WEBSITE***
see my *under construction site at:
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to
listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list
commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the
subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:10:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Message-Id: <199604281110.EAA19437@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
And it seems that the more women start talking, really
talking
to one another, and really listening to one another, the
stronger all of you will become.
c.s.
Sure, that's the point of the NGs and this list, so we
*all* can talk
about WIITWD and our lives. There's a powerful need for us
to be able
to share the truth about our lives with one another.
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:06:48 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: No sex...NOT! ;)
Message-Id: <199604281106.EAA11843@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com
None of the ones I have known personally had sex (as men
understand it) with any male client. Sex was more likely
something done with a 'steady' partner (of either gender).
OK, but how do you define "sex"?
There are in fact huge numbers of Pro Doms who make it
their business
to sexually gratify their customers in sessions, usually by
masturbating the guy while he's in bondage, using
vibrators, dildos,
etc. or by ordering/allowing him to masturbate himself
while kneeling
or grovelling, and wearing his fetish stuff. Isn't this
"sex"?
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:10:35 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: More about orgasms
Message-Id:
<199604281110.EAA26810@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com
MICHAEL J. CRETARO"
As far as femdom as a means to female supremacy. Any
domination should
have as its end result, mental and emotional domination.
not
phyisical. The phyisical part leads to the mental and
emotional . This
occurs when the male orgasm has been completely feminized.
Well, sure, that's one method... :)
As it stands now the male erection and the orgasm it
produces
are nothing more than blatant aggression. It fills the male
mind with
ideas of power and control. This must be reversed. A means
of doing
this is to reverse the conditions under which the male is
brought to
orgasm. instead of man on top, man on bottom instead of man
in
control, man tied up and under control. instead of man
orgasming when
he wants to, man orgasming when female allows him to if she
allows him
to at all.
Well, I agree with this, natch ;) My slaves aren't allowed
to orgasm
except *as* and *when* I decree, usually *after* I've had
mine. :) We
have a saying in my house: "Ladies first!". :)
you know what they say, when you've got them by the balls,
their
hearts and their minds will follow.
True, or in the case of female slaves, "by the ovaries". ;)
--
Laura Goodwin
"You don't have to be an angel to be a saint."
(Albert Schweitzer)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:36:42 +0100
From: newworld@dircon.co.uk (ian)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: RE: No Sex Professionals
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was very fortunate to have a very intense two year love
affair with a
Professional Dominatrix.
I loved the fact she was a "Professional Dominatrix", I
found it incredibly
sexy.
She resented me feeling that way, she wanted me to be
jealous of her other
slaves. She was not assured I loved her for what she WAS
rather than for
what she DID.
Now there in lies the root cause of a lot of the problems
in establishing a
s/m/fetish love life! Take note guys!
I was not jealous of her (other) slaves because I trusted
her. I knew that
there was "no sex". I understood that there was an intimacy
that we had
together that was special. There were certain physical
activities between
us that were for us alone to share. There were no off limit
activities
between us. We were lovers in every sense of the word and
we were also
Mistress and slave.
However the notion of no sex is a tenuous one to grasp. I
knew the sexual
energy in her dungeon was incredibly immense. I knew that
she did get
aroused in the dungeon. I knew that her slaves were
dribbling with desire
for her. There was intense sexual activity going on in
there but of a
different quality and quantity then that reserved for us.
I could never understand the strange antipathy Mistress had
to her
business. At times she seemed to despise herself for doing
it. She would
get so angry with me because of the way I viewed it. She
knew that I
thought of it in a very positive way (like a social
service). It would
enrage her when she could see that I thought her work sexy,
I would have
loved to watch her at work or talk with her about what she
did that day,
but even me thinking about it would throw her into a black
mood. So I never
even mentioned this to her. I found the safest way to
conduct our relations
was not to refer to her work at all.
She was one of the most passionately jealous women I have
ever known.
Jealous of my excitement and pleasure arising from her role
as a Mistress
with others. Jealous of my (innocent) gaze towards other
Mistress's/women
at S/m/fetish clubs and parties (or anywhere come to think
of it). Jealous
of my childish enthusiasm and naive delight in the s/m
scene (still intact
after 20+ years of exploration).
I am ashamed to admit I had little sympathy for her
psychological turmoil
arising from her inner conflicts regarding her occupation.
To me she was
(and is) an incredibly wonderful person who could turn her
hand to any
occupation she chose. I would say to her, "If it bothers
you do something
else".
Us men can be pigs sometimes without meaning it.
This two year experience has left me very confused. I have
thought long and
hard about it for the last 12 months since we parted. I
still see her as a
friend (only apart from a couple of recent occasions when
we "lapsed" into
a scene together and this has left me even more confused).
It was a the type of relationship I have dreamed about all
my life. I tried
so hard to make it work and on those occasions when it did
it was like
heaven on earth. Needless to say at other times it was like
hell.
My confidence in my ability to make the kind of
relationship I need has
received a devastating blow.
I think the Goddess sent me this opportunity and I blew it.
I wonder if she
will give me another chance?
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 10:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: Some Personal Observations
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
The OHSU computer system is having fits, so please forgive
me if
this post is not exactly relevant or up-to-date. Many of
the recent
posts have dealt with FemDom rather than FemSupremacy
issues, and I
thought I'd add one person's perspective to this thread.
Please keep in
mind that I am very new to the "scene" and have dealt with
it in only one
area. Also, some of my files were wiped out so I will not
attempt to
cite exact quotes and may even misidentify authors.
Since I am a "newbie" with the local bdsm community, I feel
very
emphatic with those folks who are having trouble fitting
in. As has been
said often in this list it takes time, especially if you
are a male
submissive. Female dominants have the "pick of the litter",
so expect to
have a long wait. Still, if these feelings are so important
to you, the
time you spend will be worth it. Meanwhile, what can you do
to make
things happen?
For starters, show up! (thank you Laura and c.s). One
person
related a bad experience with the local bdsm group, and
maybe he does
indeed live in a place full of jerks. But more than likely
his inherent
shyness, coupled with an initial meeting with some
insensitive people,
turned him off. Get used to it, bucko, you're gonna get
shot down
frequently. Keep trying, and be honest; state what you
desire and what
you are willing to give. Here in Portland it seemed like
people were
lining up to give me counseling, advice, and comfort; I
soon understood
what the terms "bdsm community" and "leatherfolk" meant. If
you're
sincere, people will help you out even if they don't have a
personal
interest in you.
Once you've got your feet on the ground, show some flash!
Contribute to the Community in any way you can. Remember
Laura's posts
on her organizational efforts? Sure, very few of us have
the ability
to do that much, but you have to start somewhere. Volunteer
to help
set up parties, work on your local group's newsletter, plan
and
organize events, or whatever. People will notice, and then
they may
start thinking of you in other contexts.........;-
As for the ProDomme issue, I have dealt with only one. Even
though she knew that I was in a relationship and had "no
commercial
potential" (thank you, F. Zappa), she went out of her way
to help me
out and cheer me up. I don't know if she has sex with her
clients or
not, but if she is in any way representative of the Pros in
general
they are a very good group.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #55
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From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
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Subject: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #46
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 46
Today's Topics:
unsubscribe
Re: attitude
some personal steps
Re: some personal steps
Re: One great thing :)
Re: One great thing :)
Re: some personal steps
Re: some personal steps
Re: some personal steps
Re: attitude
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:17:43 GMT
From: Cookie@pre-haz.demon.co.uk
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-Id: <349@pre-haz.demon.co.uk
(In reply to your message dated Thursday 18, April 1996)
--
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 21:31:25 -0500
From: TashaStar
To: FemSupremacy
CC: "msnat@aol.com"
Subject: Re: attitude
Message-Id: <199604200228.WAA24171@anshar.shadow.net
-- [ From: TashaStar * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Subject: attitude
Does anybody know if this magazine called attitude is
available in europe
or
on the net?
I just heard about it, it sounds interesting but I don't
know much more
about it.
Is it worth a try?
Bernd
Bernd,
Here is the info you request:
Attitude is a mag for (according to the title)
Dominant women and those who adore them.
You can subscribe by calling 1-800-4Fetish
(1yr subscription is $75.00-6 issues)
It is ok, but not my favorite mag, and it is available
in the states, but I didn't see it internationally.
It was not available in England on my last trip.
The other Magazines that I prefer:
Domina - The world of corrective eroticism.
$20 US/issue (L8-UK)
Domina US address is 305 Madison Avenue, Suite 1166,
NY,NY 10165
UK address is27 Old Gloucester St. London, WC1 3XX.
And: Bondage Tymes, which is a newly revised magazine
created by
a local Domina here in my area. (More on the Goddess
lifestyles and
interviews with women who subscribe to Fem Supremacy and
Dominas)
$50/yr subscript-6 issues
R&F enterprises PO box 23604, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
33307-3604
There are many good publications out there, catering to
many different
tastes,
fetish, and interest. Good luck finding what you want!!
Tasha
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
--
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 (305) 534-1555
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
You can read info about me and see my picture on:
http://www.buffnet.net/~jaguar/MSJ-FDOM.HTM
(please enter URL *exactly* as it is here)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 20:09:52 -0700
From: zbobz
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: some personal steps
Message-Id:
<199604210309.UAA11076@sweden.it.earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
While Female supremacy in the largest social sense seems a
distant vision
there are some steps one can take immediately, that are
entirely under
personal control, to help move in that direction.
(1) Support Female political power
a-vote Female: unless there is clear reason not to (and
usually things
just aren't that clear) vote for Female candidates over
male candidates,
vote for issues that favor and aid Women, and vote against
issues that don't
serve Women's interests.
b-contribute financially to Female candidates (e.g.,
Emily's List, The
Feminist Majority, etc.)
c-If you're in a relationship with a dominant Woman ask for
and accept
Her guidance in marking your ballot.
(2) Support Female causes
a-Women's health (e.g.,National Breast Cancer Coalition)
b-Women appreciation activities (e.g.,Women in the Arts,
The Women's
Memorial [veterans])
c-Women's development (e.g., The National Council for
Research on Women)
(3) Seek out and use Woman provided services and businesses
a-personal physician (you may be surprised at how much you
like it)
b-buying a car or home: buy it from a Woman; your
commission might as
well go to help raise the incomes of Women.
c-insurance broker, stock broker (ditto)
d-etc.
(4) Make yourself available to help the Women you work with
a-Your boss: go the extra mile to be of service to Her and
help Her
succeed and move up.
b-Colleages: be respectful, and helpful; volunteer to take
on some of
Her work load if you can; praise Her to the boss if you
have a chance; ask
Her advice if you get stuck (you may be surprised at how
wise She is); it's
good to keep in mind you might be working for Her someday,
too.
c-Suborinates: treat Her with the respect you afford an
equal; nurture
and work with Her to move up; offer Her experiences and
opportunities that
allow Her to develop Her career.
(5) Help the Women you work or live with learn their
dominant role
a-Act deferrential (that's like submissive, but not so
obvious)
1-listen attentively, and don't interrup Her when She talks
2-if in doubt ask Her opinion
3-if She expresses a desire, do it. Whether it's a hint or
a flat
out demand; the more you do what She says the more She will
say what She
wants you to do. The longer and the more She does it the
more She'll
develop the expectation that you should do what She says.
Don't rush Her;
this kind of learning takes awhile.
b-take initiative in making Her life better and easier.
Start with
small things and work up to the big things (that way it
doesn't seem so
masochistic, and will be less likely to put Her off on that
account. Ask
Her if you can bring Her coffee or a cold drink, or go to
the store for
something She likes or wants, or wash the dishes or the
clothes or clear the
floor, etc. Work up; if you're consistent She'll like it
(just human
nature) and pretty soon you'll be shouldering much of Her
work and She'll be
expecting it.
c-Help Her resolve Her conflict between guilt and
selfishness in Her
favor. If you can tell She really wants something but feels
guilty because
it would deprive you, don't let Her agonize over it or
defer to you; take
it out of Her hands and refuse it; insist that She have it.
If it's a task
She doesn't want to do, just start doing it for Her; don't
wait for Her to
have to decide.
Once you remove guilt from the issue by seizing the
initiative you'll
probably be pleasantly surprised at how pleased She is with
indulging
Herself at your expense. If applied consistently it will
likely become
easier and easer for Her put guilt aside and have things
Her way. Again
start small and work your way up slowly; if you rush ahead
too fast She'll
perceive the nature of the change and fall back. Let Her
grow thoroughly
accustomed to each level of service before you move on to
the next.
Actually there is an incredible amount one can just do if
sufficiently
motivated and really serious about it. The items above are
things I
actually do as opportunities present themselves in real
life, and I find
really quite satisfying in and of themselves. When done
properly these
things can be done with vanilla as well as dominantly
disposed Women. Its
quite exciting I might add dealing Women in non intimate
situations when you
see in the glint of their eyes a suddent realization of
what you're doing
(of course you should never do this stuff in circumstances
that would make
Her feel threatened or awkard.)
Finally, as a post scrip, as you do this stuff not only are
Women empowered
but you feel increasingly deferential and committed to
their empowerment.
I'm afraid I wandered a bit, but anyway I'm done... hope at
least someome
finds something of interest here.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 08:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: some personal steps
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Friends,
I felt that zbobz's post was a very positive contribution
to the
oft-discussed question of how we can each take individual
steps to reach
the goal of Female Supremacy.
The only part that saddened me (and this does not make it
any
less true) was the fact that men must take the initiative
to reveal to some
women the role that should be theirs by right. Our society
has been
so effective in relegating women to second-class status
that many have
come to accept that position. Rather than merely being
angry about this
injustice, zbobz is attempting to rectify it.
It takes a special kind of courage to assume the initiative
in
order to surrender it, and it requires honor and integrity
to avoid being
seduced by the power you assume. My regards to zbobz for
displaying all
three of these qualities.
Peace,
Barry
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: One great thing :)
Message-Id: <199604212122.OAA05252@netcom11.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3667
Originally posted here last August by JNohel1@aol.com. I am
_still_
looking for this book anywhere, and wonder if it really
exists. I suppose
I could always call NYU Press and ask, but some men aren't
good at asking
for help. :P
c.s.
Here's the original post:
The following is from New York University Press. A
scholarly book on Female Supremacy. i thought the list
would
find the review interesting. The book will not be available
till fall, i believe...
***New York University Press, Summer-Fall 1995.***
"The Castration of Oedipus: Psychoanalysis, Postmodernism,
and Feminism" by: J.C. Smith and Carla Ferstman
The intellectual movements of psychoanalysis,
postmodernism,
and feminism have redefined the ways in which we think
about
human experience. Each, in its own way, has challenged
deeply-held societal notions about the ways in which humans
interact and the ways in which power is negotiated across
gender boundaries.
... In this landmark book, J.C. Smith and Carla Ferstman
combine these disparate traditions to create a provocative,
unified, and tightly woven perspective that transcends the
misogyny implicit in much of Freudian psychoanalytic
theory.
The dialectic of domination and submission in the context
of
gender-identified people is central to Smith and Ferstman's
argument. Men and women, they insist, must avoid the
temptation to fetishize equality and recognize the roles of
domination and submission in the human psyche, or, in
Nietzsche's terms, "the Will to Power."
With this recognition they can begin to undermine the
patriarchal nature of equality. They argue that the
unification of psychoanalysis, postmodernism, and
feminism...
....leads us to the shocking conclusion that women and men
cannot move beyhond the misery and suffering which so
haunts
the human condition,
...unless heterosexual men surrender the power that is
causing their misery, and affirm life by joyfully accepting
domination by women...
...and coversely, women reaffirm their power through
rejecting Oedipal genderization and sexuality by embracing
a
liberating matriarchal consciousness and a matriphallic
sexuality.
....Smith and Ferstman explore the consequences of reading
Nietzsche and Lacan in radical feminist terms as they
consider the issues of religion, law, and pornography.
A work of tremendous insight and extraordinary intellectual
energy, 'The Castration of Oedipus' will provoke strong
reactions in all readers regardless of ideology.
J.C.Smith is Professor of Law at the University of British
Columbia, and the author of 'The Psychoanalytic Roots of
Patriarchy: The Neurotic Foundations of Social Order.'
Carla J. Ferstman is Associate Counsel at the firm of
Bolton
and Muldoon.
the subject "help".
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: One great thing :)
Message-Id: <199604212113.OAA04433@netcom11.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 6719
On March 31st, Laura Goodwin wrote (in part):
It's called a library card. Costs nothing: is worth a lot.
:) The
importance of educating ourselves is immeasurable. You
can't do it once
and be done either: you have to do it a little (or a lot)
everyday.
;;; ;;; ;;; ;;;
I wish more of you would post the names/authors of books
that support
our worldview. I don't want to miss any. Thank you. :)
And earlier in March, Bernd Angerer wrote:
I am searching for literature about the ideas and visions
of a womens
world, at the moment i just know fragments coming from
mass-media like tv
and radio.But i want to go deeper in this theme but i do
not know where to
start. Any books written by women about this idea?
I feel very good when thinking on female dominance but it
is still a very
blurry image in my mind.
Sooooooooooooooo:
Here is my short list of the books I rely on to give me
some idea where
all this is going. I know there are many others- I spent
yesterday
afternoon in Bookstar (it could just as easily have been
the public
library as Laura has urged us or Borders or B&N), and
found literally
hundreds of Feminist and Goddess spirituality titles. Most
of you have
read or heard of the titles cited here, but here are the
references for
searching, borrowing or buying. In continental Europe or in
Asia, some of
these might be in the USIS or British library in the larger
cities.
The comments are my own and not intended to portray
'correct' Female
Supremacy (or 'correct' anything else). ;D
NON-FICTION
_Women Who Run With the Wolves_ (Myths and Stories of the
Wild Woman Archetype), by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D.,
trade paperback pub. Ballantine Books, New York, 1992.
ISBN 0-345-37744-3
(The title says it all. Tools for women to break away from
cultural conditioning and connect with their archetype(s).
If I could only keep one book about empowering Women, this
would be it. I give it as a gift often.)