I wrote:
By the way, Bernardo's wife, who was actively involved in
his crimes, was
given 12 years because she testified against him. She is
eligible for day
parole as early as next year.
I should have mentioned that she plea-bargained for the
sentence before it
came out in the trial that she was an active participant.
If the
authorities knew beforehand of her involvement, she
obviously would have
received a harsher sentence. .... sorry.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Males walking ahead (was Re N.Americans, was Re
Holidays)
Message-Id: <199606251337.GAA28026@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Laura wrote:
I feel that if men walk ahead, that's it's to clear the
path for the
women.
Hey! *beams* This is a role I can do! Path Clearer, Trail
Blazer,
Advance Scout, Forager! At last, a fitting vocation for
those males still
uncivilized enough to -like- their aggressive, unsocial
sides and have no
desire to get rid of those traits - just to be running with
/ ahead of a
more matriarchal pack. But someone else can be the official
"Male Mine
Detector"
Besides, if there's hostiles up ahead, while the women can
no doubt fight
their own battles, why not let the men be the ones to pick
up the scars?
We're the ones what tend to boast of them. ;)
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Males like beasts (Was Re Ymeretool thanks Ms
Patricia)
Message-Id: <199606251411.HAA00899@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ymeretool wrote:
Women are the more evolved part of the human species
and we males are more like the beasts. we males must
never be ashamed to acknowledge that fact. We must
always strive to be Womankind's best friend and to
teach other males their true place in nature and society.
meretool
I happily concede that Women are, in numerous ways, a more
evolved part
of the species. Far from being ashamed of being more like
the beasts, I
take a certain pride in it - better to be more like a wolf
than a man, so
long's I am a friend of Womankind.
So far as teaching other males their place though.... Seems
to me there's
a place in nature and society for all manner of males - the
eloquently
sensitive type personified by Coyote Sings, the voice of
reason such as
Timberwolf, those such as maidpaula who have pride, and are
proud to serve,
the humble tools such as yourself, and yes, even male
dominants & leaders,
so long as they too are friends of Womankind, and not
merely domineering
agents of the malecentric patriarchal system.
What needs to be taught, sometimes forcefully, is that
Women have a Voice,
that it's not okay to deny them that voice, or to treat
them as any less
than equals, that it's not just acceptable for a woman to
be strong and to
have a will of her own, but _good_. And to teach the real
neanderthals
that it's not acceptable to be abusive or bullies, towards
women, children,
Nature, or even men. Some means of teaching are friendly
and peaceful,
but those don't always suffice; sometimes active opposition
is the only way
to have any hope of obtaining their attention.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of
darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Even savagery has its place and its uses.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Capitalization.
Message-Id: <199606251443.HAA05301@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Magnus wrote:
I managed to delete Chase's letter before I decided to
comment. Stupid!
Anyway, it seems to me that you've overlooked a detail in
your letter.
This is a female supremacy mailing list. Your letter seemed
to exclusively
deal with female dominance. What you or anyone else choose
to do about that
distinction is for the person in question to decideof
course.
True enough - I basically wrote solely with regards to
female dominance,
but there's a reason for that. In my eyes, the question /
protocol of lower
case being used is solely a D/s issue, albeit not only
femdom related. As
far as female supremacy, and in particular this list, goes,
there isn't,
almost can't be, such a policy without reducing it to the
FemaleSupremacy
flavor of (sexual) Female Dominance.
The reason I say this is that female supremacy, and this
list, covers a lot
more than sexual dominance, males effacing themselves, and
women being
treated/viewed as Queen/Goddess/Superior. Political issues,
questions and
thoughts on how female voices and values can gain more
representation in
government and corporate leadership, or how women can be
encouraged to both
find and express their Voices, and men be encouraged to
listen better....
Propounding a world in which all men are subordinate to all
women, for ins-
tance, is a nice fantasy, a fantasy which many submissive
men in particular
rather fancy. But that's all it is - short of global
slaughter or the
development of some drug to be administered to all men that
renders them
docile and meek, it isn't likely to happen, and probably
shouldn't - among
other reasons, it reeks of the kind of authoritarian rule
male dominated
civilization has attempted time and again.
Attempting to make the list adhere to an "I/i" protocol
would probably drive
away many of the people it wants to reach - such as women
who, while not
uninterested in the social/cultural issues, weren't fond of
the more sexual,
femdomish things that come up on the list - such as the men
posting with
lower case "I"'s, looking for dominants. (Someone actually
mentioned this
happening with a few women they'd referred to the list,
you'll recall)
Hence why I couldn't even think of the protocol matter in
anything other
than female dominance terms.
-- \_awless is : A wolf, and ones of those who'd be gone
with an 'i' rule.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- For some, it's a climb up to the gutter.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Inherited? (was Re Not Your Average Mom)
Message-Id: <199606251459.HAA06583@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jon wrote:
Incidentally, I've often wondered whether a predeliction
for
BDSM is any way inherited. I can trace no event in my life
to
explain why I feel this way, so could it be there
genetically?
If so, who knows, in time it could be like Mother, like
Daughter.
Mmm, I certainly hope not! We already get far too much
passed on via
our genetic heritage, to the point where someone like me
can't take much
pride or credit for my metabolism, physique, talents, or
intelligence -
I'd hate to have to lay my personality traits at the foot
of DNA's ladder
as well.
Not to mention that I know far too many people whose
familial background
has no one else evidencing any signs of dominance or
submission, sadism or
masochism. An' kids -do- tend to notice such things in
their parents, no
matter how hard the parents try to hide it - hence so many
BDSMers trying
to find a good way to explain things to their children.
I can't find any events in my life to explain why I'm the
way I am either,
not in my environment -or- in my genetic inheritance. If I
had to find a
cause for it, I'd be more inclined to attribute it to karma
or reincarnation
- influences from a previous existence.
-- \_awless was : A Lady's wolf, in a prior life.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com /
lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:55:02 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Uses for uncivilizable males in a femdom world
(warning: humor)
Message-Id: <199606251755.KAA29744@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com
I said that if men walk ahead of women it's to clear the
path for them.
Lawless said:
Path Clearer, Trail Blazer, Advance Scout, Forager! At
last, a
fitting vocation for those males still uncivilized enough
to -like-
their aggressive, unsocial sides and have no desire to get
rid of
those traits - just to be running with / ahead of a more
matriarchal
pack. But someone else can be the official "Male Mine
Detector"
Besides, if there's hostiles up ahead, while the women can
no doubt
fight their own battles, why not let the men be the ones to
pick up
the scars? We're the ones what tend to boast of them. ;)
Yeah! Pain is fleeting, glory is forever, and scars are
sexy! ;) That's
the spirit!
* Top ten reasons * why we need to keep at least a few
savage males in
our utopian gynosupremist society:
10) Breeding: they produce faaaabulous amazonian daughters!
9) Fighters: If there is a real battle, we better have some
real
battlers on our side, (and the males are more expendable).
8) Entertainment: If there are no battles we can put them
in an arena
and have them fight each other for cash and faaaabulous
prizes!
7) Pleasure: It's a fact: some women like it rough.
6) Diversity: These guys tend to be not boring. If there's
no
excitement, they'll stir some up!
5) Terror: The threat of being compelled to "date" a room
full of
them would serve as a useful deterrent for most other
males.
4) Reward: The threat of being thrown to a room full of
them would
serve as a useful inducement for _certain individuals_.
3) Decorative: they can be chained in stressful but
attractive
positions and used as doorstops.
2) Educational: They can be hung up and used as targets for
bullwhip
practice.
And the number one reason we need to keep at least a few of
these
fascinating brutes?
:::::drumroll::::::::
1) In a word: MEAT. ;)
--
Laura Goodwin
"Who is she who appears like the dawn
Fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
Terrifying as an army with banners?"
(Song of Solomon, 6:10)
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:42:20 -0400
From: WQ2@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <960625144218_142661737@emout15.mail.aol.com
enjoyed ran out of time.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:46:16 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <31D033F8.3C15@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
maid paula--
Lady Jet- Perhaps you can relate it to your daughter using
a game analogy.
Talk to her about her favorite games and why she likes
them, and how she has
fun and enjoys playing them with her friends. Then try to
make the
connection that you have some favorite games you like to
play also,
but they are adult games that make you and your play
partner very happy.
Try to explain that they are very special games that are
only played
in private between special friends. Tell her not to worry
if she hears
any noises from mommy's room, it's just part of the game.
I think this is a very good idea... Thanks!
Also, it might help to have the relationship sub there when
you talk to
her about this (if she wouldn't be too put off) to affirm
that he/she loves
to play with you and you both care for her and each other
very much.
I think she would be put off by this one... She is just
coming into
puberty and sex is an off limits topic right now...
Whenever she sees even
kissing on television, she goes: "IIIiiiiiickkkkkk!"
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:41:32 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thelma & Louise
Message-ID:
FE FEThelma & Louise
FE
FE ^ ^ They were not in control. They were manipulated into
FE ending up the only way they "could," in the male
perspective--dead-
FE Cop-out ending. I was always disappointed in that. They
had to
FE pay anyway. I hated that.
FE CybErotiComm Online
FEHmmm - I rather liked the ending - I tend to find "happy
endings" to be the
FEreal cop-outs. So far as them being manipulated, not in
control - who, asid
FEfrom the rich & powerful, really -is- in control?
IMO, they were strong
FEcharacters, who at least reacted against the brutality of
the rapist and
FErejected the idea that they needed police/society to look
after them, vice
FEeither accepting it quietly or simply reporting it.
FEEven in the end, they rejected the future, or lack of
one, that was being
FEoffered them, by going out in style, together.
Quite frankly, I believe you have bought into the male-
dominated "crime-punishment" system. The ending was
satisfying
to the male audience because while the women went "out in
style"
they also "got what was coming to them" for defying male
dominance..."See girly, you can scream all you want, but
you
gonna die anyway..."and it was satisfying to the
semi-enlightened
FEMALE audience because they "reacted against..." Bullshit.
It wasn't even a BELIEVABLE ending! I have been a victim of
rape, abuse and this male-dominated society -- I *know*
how "they" think. The producers of the movie HAD to kill
Thelma and Louise or the movie would have been a box-office
failure.
FE"Cutthroat Island", with Geena Davis & Matthew
Modine. Very light-hearted
FEescapist fare, but enjoyable. Geena, as a pirate leader,
is smart, brave,
FEswings a mean fist and swordblade, and doesn't rely on
any man to save her.
Sure. You have the answer within your text "light-hearted
*escapist* fare..." As long as she is a controllable
FANTASY
(And please, subby men, do not tell me "oh, MY Mistress is
no
Fantasy!" I KNOW that!) she is enjoyable and "cute." But
let your average good ol' boy run into her in the street
and
she is dead.
I have BEEN there, my friend. I am she.
CybErotiComm Online
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:50:58 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <31D03512.1523@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David--
A divorced mom and daughter pose an interesting opportunity
for a
submissive male. Along with doing everything needed to make
life go
smoothly for the mum is the opportunity to be nurturing and
respectful to
the daughter, who can be a tyrant in her own right. I don't
know what harm
there would be in the young one seeing who is boss. IMHO,
it is okay for
her to have her mother as a role model who can demonstrate
saying no to male
demands for sexual gratification, because by Grade 9 it is
pretty likely
that females will have had to withstand one or more forms
of intimidation by
males. There may have to be a reservation of certain sights
and sounds for
times when Mum has privacy - just as one would expect to
find with a plain
vanilla mum.
Interesting perception. As long as direct sexuality stays
out of the area of
children, I think the dominance part would work in this
case. I've been
abused by my Step-Father (physically and sexually), so I am
probably more
cautious about this than some women... It is interesting
though...
Lady Jet
The issues around step parenting can all be negotiated in a
context
of female supremacy.
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 11:53:06 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Laura, Your Advice... (was Re: Not Your Average
Mom)
Message-ID: <31D03592.2298@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Also, our own Laura Goodwin has dealt with this issue,
I'm confident she will chime in when she has the time.
Regards, Paul (maidpaula)
Good suggestion, Paul! I didn't know Laura had children.
Laura--
How do you work this out? Do you have a special play area?
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 20:41:21 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Inherited? (was Re Not Your Average Mom)
Message-Id: <199606251857.UAA07368@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg
wrote:
Mmm, I certainly hope not! We already get far too much
passed on via
our genetic heritage, to the point where someone like me
can't take much
pride or credit for my metabolism, physique, talents, or
intelligence -
I'd hate to have to lay my personality traits at the foot
of DNA's ladder
as well.
According to what I've read in the media lately (sorry, but
I can't cite
an exact source), science is starting to reevaluate its
position on how the
personality in humans is shaped. For some time most have
agreed that an
infant child is more or less a piece of canvas waiting for
its work of art,
but now, as knowledge of the significance of the genes,
when it comes to the
personality traits, increases, scientists are becoming more
and more
convinced that heritage has a much stronger influence on
the personality than
has been known before. In a way that is positive, since it
may enable us to
detect psychopathic disorders in the future, instead of
putting such
individuals to death *after* they've already done their
damage to society.
Not to mention that I know far too many people whose
familial background
has no one else evidencing any signs of dominance or
submission, sadism or
masochism. An' kids -do- tend to notice such things in
their parents, no
Inherited characteristics can skip one or more generations.
---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
"Fuck off, Uncle Sam. Cyberspace is where democracy lives."
---Todd Lappin
the subject "help".
--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #119
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------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 120
Today's Topics:
Re: Not Your Average Mom
Re: Thelma & Louise
Re: Female Leads
Re: Female Leads
Hilary
Re: Thelma & Louise
Re: Hilary
Re: Holiday
Re: Holiday
Re: Advice...
Unsubscribe
Re: meretool thanks Ms. Patricia and asks a question
leaving the list
Re: leaving the list
Re: leaving the list
Re: Not Your Average Mom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:00:18 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Not Your Average Mom
Message-ID: <31D03742.1E0B@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
dennis--
First of all, it all depends on the *lifestyle* You intend
to reflect. There
are of course many activities carried out in an *accepted*
loving relationship
that parents would not expect to be witnessed by their
children (unless it is
an extremely *open* household). Similarly, a great time can
be had in the
bedroom by a bdsm twosome, without traumatising outsiders.
Unfortunately, a
great deal of proactive explanations will have to be given
to Your daughter
before chains, hoods and whips etc. are to be accepted as
the day to day
household scenario. As You know, I had a very enjoyable D/s
relationship with
a Lady in a busy office enviroment, without (I hope) anyone
else having any idea
as to what was happening.
Very true...
Laura Goodwin describes in Her Home Page biography a very
similar domestic
situation, and as a previous contributor suggested, a few
good pointers will
no doubt be coming Your way from that illustrious Lady (if
not already).
Have not heard from Laura yet, but hope to. I admire her
immensely because
she already has her life set up in the Fem Supremacist way
and I am now coming
to terms and decisions about it.
I am sure Your wonderful sense of humour and undoubted
fortitude will ensure
a smooth path to Your chosen lifestyle, and as noted
before, You may have even
endowed Your daughter with dominant traits that would take
care of most of the
problem (and the world would be graced with another greatly
needed Female
Supremacist).
It would be nice... One more for the group. ;)
Dennis (t.o.m)
PS
DR SEUSS was very funny - many thanks
You are most welcome... Funny computer poems only come by
once in a blue moon.
Jet
the subject "help".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thelma & Louise
Message-Id: <199606251948.MAA08121@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
sorceress/CybErotiComm Online wrote, re my comments on
"Themla & Louise":
Quite frankly, I believe you have bought into the male-
dominated "crime-punishment" system. The ending was
satisfying
to the male audience because while the women went "out in
style"
they also "got what was coming to them" for defying male
dominance..."See girly, you can scream all you want, but
you
gonna die anyway..."and it was satisfying to the
semi-enlightened
FEMALE audience because they "reacted against..." Bullshit.
It wasn't even a BELIEVABLE ending! I have been a victim of
rape, abuse and this male-dominated society -- I *know*
how "they" think. The producers of the movie HAD to kill
Thelma and Louise or the movie would have been a box-office
failure.
*chuff* Nope, I haven't bought into "crime-punishment", and
I don't think
the women "got what was coming to them". I do believe in a
"choice /
consequence" paradigm though - people can choose their
course of action, so
long as they accept the consequences. In the movie, the two
women choose
not to just accept the rape, they choose not to accept the
law / government's
dominion, and they choose not to go to jail for their
actions.
By the end of the movie, there was no possible ending that
was both "good"
and realistically believable - unless of course the
directors choose to
have the women surrender and cop an insanity plea, or
perhaps, implausibly,
get off on a mistrial. Even if not for shooting the guy,
which they -may-,
and -should-, have been able to be found innocent /
justified for, their
actions afterward (blowing things up, for instance), were a
totally different
matter. And, actually, you it wasn't believable as an
ending? Propose one
that -was- believable, -and- happy, if you can.
Finally, I'd like to point out that you're insulting not
just all the men
who enjoyed the movie, and I, for one, did -not- want to
see the women "get
what was coming to them", but you're insulting all the
women who did as well,
implying that they're only "semi-enlightened". An' stating
that they (the
producers) thought they HAD to kill them or it'd be a box
office failure is
pure conjecture, and again - implying a very low view of
the viewers.
Re Cutthroat Island:
Sure. You have the answer within your text "light-hearted
*escapist* fare..." As long as she is a controllable
FANTASY
(And please, subby men, do not tell me "oh, MY Mistress is
no
Fantasy!" I KNOW that!) she is enjoyable and "cute." But
let your average good ol' boy run into her in the street
and
she is dead.